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Framework is the new CMS *narf*

edited February 2006 in Vanilla 1.0 Help
I guess this spiralled from the CMS talk, I went on to look for CMS systems that would offer me more than just a CMS, like Intranet and maybe Client management/relations tools and so on. *poit* And I got to the conclusion that Frameworks are the new CMS systems, and it all makes a sense, if you think about it, the personal web space or page has changed in to a blog and any web application other than that are forums, galleries (also goes to the gategory of blog) and CMS' If you want to make a personal page and you don't know anything about coding, a blogging tool like WP, MT and TXP are your best shots. But if you really need to do a CMS you have to learn a great deal of stuff, the CMS systems are complex, so why not learn few things about a framework and really do something amazing, talking about thinking outside the box, how about actually working outside the proverbial box. Frameworks these days are not that much more complicated than your average CMS application which range from impossible to medicore, but in terms of features you can't even start to compare them against each other. I know framework is abused buzzword like web 2.0 but I'm talking about real frameworks like Django, CakePHP and Ruby on Rails here. So voice your opinion, would you learn how to use hard to figure out CMS or would you learn a framework and use it to do everything from CMS and Intranet to E-Commerce and Webmail.


  • I totally agree, for most medium sized sites a "roll-your-own" CMS is far far better, it is totally customised to your needs, you know the ins and outs of the system, and it's an all round nicer experience especially with something like Ruby on Rails.
  • Slightly off topic but I was reading this thread at the same time as I found ... Google Page Maker + Google for your domain + Google Anylytics anyone?
  • no thanks! i'll have scotch and water.
  • Kosmo, excellent points you make there...all are very valid. And essentially that's the point that DHH (the creator of Rails puts forth). He absolutely despises CMSs and premade stuff. He feels like pretty much everything should be made by each individual, with the exception of certain items. And while I don't always agree with DHH, I think he's in the right area on this point. If you take a look at something like Drupal, it becomes immediately apparent that while you have a powerful system there, anything you make in it is subject to its limitations and implementations. It may be overly bloated or not featured enough for what you need. Most of the times its right in the middle, and has some features you don't need and is missing others you do need. So you could then learn PHP, and learn how to work in that particular CMS, and then make whatever you wanted...or you could use one of the web frameworks that helps you to get up and going extremely fast. Plus, if you are making your own stuff, a lot of the time you can reuse stuff like login systems, etc, thus saving you even more time but meaning that anything you make will be exactly what you need. I do Rails work at my main job currently. My first project has been a big success and my company likes it and it will soon be used by an actual client. If I wouldn't have done the project in Rails, I don't think I'd be anywhere near finished at this point. People using things like PHP are honestly wasting a lot of valuable time. At this point it makes much more sense to use a much more powerful language such as Ruby or Python (or even something like Perl) in the context of a framework that keeps things very simple for you much like PHP would.
  • I just started learning ruby, And I started learning for all the reason everyone has stated. For a couple of my sites all I need was some news posting, and a small backend for the the admins, others I needed much more. I could never find a system that allowed me to do both, and It feels like a waste of time to learn 5 different cms's to be prepared for what the future holds. I must also say that ruby has not only come easy to learn, but has also been very enjoyable! I just can't wait untill I can actually relase something using it. :)
  • /me dons flame retardants
  • I don't think it's that "Frameworks are the new CMS"; I just think that it's nice to have a wide range of options from the programming-heavy to one-click.

    Hardcore code ninjas can write a blog from scratch, busy programmers can piece one together from a framework, semi-programmers can write a new theme for an existing blog, and non-programmers can use a premade theme for an existing app.
  • Bergie, that was actually what I was saying. For the use of personal/small sites you have your currently popular and very powerful blogging tools. And there is always a market for a publishing tools, since there will always be more designers than there are coders. But when you are making a big site, like a dell site or apple for example, where you need e-store and alot of information of your products. You need a good CMS and that means today more or less a framework since with RoR or Django, a single man can do it and not waste a year making it.
  • It's true. I was looking into CMS's for a small site I was going to be doing, and was completely turned off by their general lack of elegance and usability. I gave up on the idea of using a CMS and fell back on PHP to do some templating. Through the process, I ended up refining my "template" into my own mini-CMS, which I wrote in one evening. It's lightweight and stays out of my way. It has been said (by I can't remember who... maybe DHH) that the only good frameworks are those extracted from real-world apps, and that makes total sense to me now. Too many CMS's try to be everything to everyone and end up completely failing to provide a good user experience by way of feature- and option-bloat.
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