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AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRH *bangs head on table*

Ok, i finally finish this web design job (which i'm not getting paid for btw thankyouverymuch). And then i just get an email telling me to "just" merge my design with some urban graffiti letters. Just a little thing to do because i've finished. One: my design is white and pink and all in sans-serif fonts Two: graffiti letters!? Three: they've been going on at me for making it "too rock" because it's a music site and it's supposed to incorperate all the styles. Now it's going to be predominately urban. Four: sans-serif....


  • I know *exactly* what you mean.

    Before you start you ask:

    "Do you have any wishes about the design, things you really want to be in it?" answer: "noo, noo, you just go ahead. Do whatever you want, I trust you, I really like . You rock!"

    After you finished:

    "Yes, it's great. But could you just change this a litlle? and alter that a little? (completely ruining the look, making it crystal clear they don't understand design when they see it)

    Not having the strength to even try to explain why you did, what you did, you go:

    "ow.... ok".

    And you think:

    "I hate him! aaarghhh!"
  • if your not getting paid, don't do it.
  • I HATE that. "Well sir what do you want" "Just do whatever you want, I know you can do an awesome job" 48 hours later------------------- "Its done sir, I think it turned out good" "Yea errr....It looks great. But uh.....Could you move that to the left side? And could you make it blue? Wait....not that kind of blue. Blue know. Like your jeans.....but bluer." Oh my....what would I do without my own sense of design.
  • I have expereinced similar situations also. I was paid to do it all though, including the revisions, so in my cases, I just smiled and said 'certainly' with some conviction. It is a little odd that it happens so often, and in my experience, it is ether really small businesses, or really big businesses. SMEs are usually pretty cool and give you a fair bit of freedom. Just my experience though. I could be totally off the mark when it coms to everyone else.
  • @nathan: Yeah, but how am i going to get paid work without a portfolio?
  • mattisfrommars: Make detailed screenshots of what it looks like now, for your portfolio, and graffiti the hell out of it.
  • Not to butt in here, but since when did you need a portfolio to get paid to do work. If you have someone asking you to do a website then charge them for it -- bottom line. Your time is valuable and unless it is *your* band then why on earth would you make a website for free? Here are some other tips I've picked up when doing freelance work: 1. Make up a contract before you start - make the customer sign it. Even if it is free work (which it should never be) 2. Include deliverables in the contract - your hourly rate, the estimate for the job, how many pages, what is included, how long after the "launch" are you going to make adjustments for free, what constitutes a small change and what is extra...ect 3. Make mockups of the design. You can do two or three different quick designs in photoshop or fireworks. Make the customer sign the one they like best. 4. Avoid jobs you won't be proud of and be comfortable showing to other customers in the future. If you can't include it in your portfolio then you may not want to do it at all.
  • Yes, that's right. it should almost never be free......

    For example, I also develop a website and host accounting applications for my aunt.
    She has her own accounting company.
    I just charge her as I would anyone else. It may sound harsh, but it reallt isn't. She doesn't ask me because she likes me so much, she just knows what I can do because she knows me. And business is business.
    You must really make a strict definition on what you think is "business".
    It's not that it's for her own blog you know.....
  • 3stripe3stripe ✭✭
    edited March 2006
  • CHAPTER 1 THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS WRONG Question: Why do retailers say ‘the customer is always right’? Answer: I have no idea. The customer doesn’t know sh**. Seriously. If it were up to them, they wouldn’t buy anything from you. They would just go along with the products and services that they have and not buy more paper from you (or whatever else you might be selling to them, such as office supplies.) -Dwight Shrute
  • MarkMark Vanilla Staff
    edited March 2006
    I'll never forget the time I was in a conference call with a client and heard this conversation go down between the client and the designer:

    Client: I like it, but can you make it more stylized?

    Designer: I'm not sure I understand, what exactly do you mean by "Stylized"?

    Client: You know, give it more ... Style

    The look on that designer's face was classic. Hahaha
  • Hahahahahahaha
  • leason: thankx for that advice. I am relatively new to this. Do you have any samples of the kind of contract you talked about? Or recommend some good web reference for stuff like that for folks who want to learn how to provide website services?
  • Those are some great points there leason. I learnt about contracts last time I did a project for someone. I'd also be interested in a sample contract if possible.
  • Yeah I'd love to get a sample of a contract, I've been meaning to write one up but can't really figure out how to lay it out. I've been doing web design for a while now and although I'm only freelancing at the moment I just want to build up a portfolio so I can use it to apply for a web design firm after I finish uni.

    I've done enough sites and stuff to fill it up but the more the better :)
  • Sorry I missed that follow up question jacmgr. I will try to get a sample together of what I do for my clients but again the most important parts include: An accurate description of what you will deliver to the client. This should be specific items. Don't : Will deliver to client an administrative area to control configurable parts of website. Do: Will deliver to client an administrative area, protected by a single username and password login, that will allow the user to control the following aspects of the site: front page news items, calendar events, and images in the photo gallery That may not be the best example in the world but hopefully you get the idea. A good contract is not a one pager. I think we get impatient and tend to want to skip the contract step because we'd rather be coding or designing, but that is a dangerous move that will bite you in the ass more often than not. Take the time to really spell everything out. This is a two step process if you do it right. In step one you will write a software requirements specification that specifically spells out all the things you are going to do. You don't go to step two until the client signs off on step one. One important, and often overlooked part of the SRS will be a change control process that specifies what will happen if the client wants to change the deliverables. This will tell the client that essentially, "Hey, I want to give you exactly what you want and I'll do whatever it takes to make that happen, but you will pay for it." In step two you take the SRS and put dates and prices on it. You also add information about your warrenty - how long will you support the product and fix bugs for free. What will your rate be after the warrenty runs out but they find another bug that needs fixing? At this point the document becomes a contract. If your requirements doc is really long you can optionally reference the SRS from a separate contract. This is good practice because you can kinda keep one doc for the contract and a template for the SRS. Here are two great resources for more stuff. First, JoelOnSoftaware rocks and he does a great job of giving real world examples and suggestions. Next, check out Karl Wiegers work as it is extremely helpful. He has free templates for SRS and tons of other project management type things on his site. Anyways, I'll try and get a sample of what I use, but it is based on stuff from those two places and a few others.
  • edited June 2006
    Hmm... I just realized the joelonsoftware site may not be easy to navigate because he's changed it a bit. Here is a link to his archive: In there you will find links to four parts of "Painless Functional Specs" which I highly recommend that you read. After that just browse his other articles and check them out. He's got a pretty good perspective on things. Also, to get started with Carl check out this article first: Its a great summary of requirements docs and some great tips.
  • Cool. Thankx leason !! I'll check out those references. Thankx for sharing.
  • edited June 2006
    I love your The Client is Always Wrong shirt 3stripe. I'll buy me one when i get the chance.
This discussion has been closed.