Quoting...

adrian.

Quoting needs to be better handled in Vanilla. The current extension only works if the post you wish to quote is on the same page, as the add comment box is only present on the last page and this produces a javascript error. Quoting someone is a must in any web based conversation or discussion and some people may wish to quote people that posted much earlier than on the last page of a discussion.

adrian.

I'm by no means discounting the quality of the current extension, it is just not entirely suitable for the uses I have in mind for Vanilla.

Bergamot

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that since I turned thread paging off on my forum.

Off the top of my head, I can't think of any good ways to handle that scenario, but at the very least the quote button should not be visible on a page without a textfield.

c-unit

Slightly off-topic, yet relavent. I've never understood why I have to go to the last page to reply. Sure I'm expected to read all the replies before I do so myself, but honestly nobody does (if there's 50+ replies), so it's not stopping anyone, and it would solve this particular problem.

Bergamot

It still wouldn't really solve the problem of quoting things on different pages in the same comment, though.

To be honest, I've never really seen the point of breaking discussions into separate pages; you get minor bandwidth benefit (mostly text and external images, which are tiny) in exchange for lots of user hassle and confusion.

Toivo

but suppose you 1000 comments in one discussion?

Bergamot

Yeah, but it wouldn't take too long to load even then, they'd be taken automatically to the last post they read, and wouldn't have to click through 30 pages of posts.

Also, most 1000-comment discussions have probably long since jumped the shark anyway.

Dinoboff

"Off the top of my head, I can't think of any good ways to handle that scenario"

I see 4 possibilities:

1. Like in other forum, the quote link send you to the last page with the quote in the comments textarea;
2. the quote link open on other window with just the form to add a comments, with quote inside; after have sent your quote, you can continue to read the rest of the discution;
3. the quote is saved in a new table, and the quote is paste in the comments textarea when we reach the last page;
4. the quotes are saved in the clipboard, and we can add the code in whenever and whatever comments you want.

Bergamot

Like in other forum, the quote link send you to the last page with the quote in the comments textarea;

Doable, but with two major problems. First, it would be extremely disconcerting to someone who was expecting the other behavior. There's no good indication that the page you're on *isn't* the last page until you get to the bottom. Second, it would be impossible to quote two things that aren't on the last page.

the quote link open on other window with just the form to add a comments, with quote inside; after have sent your quote, you can continue to read the rest of the discution;

Vanilla has done just fine without popup windows all this time; I'm not going to mess that up now.

the quote is saved in a new table, and the quote is paste in the comments textarea when we reach the last page;

That would be the best way, except that I have no way to communicate with the database from a client-side script. I really think sending posts back and forth over an Ajax channel would be overkill.

the quotes are saved in the clipboard, and we can add the code in whenever and whatever comments you want.

The Vanilla clipboard? I have no idea what that even does.

Minisweeper

The clipboard is an extension and the idea is similar in many ways to idea #3 with the exception that the clipboard wont always be present and therefore it's a bum solution.

adrian.

I wish mark would stick it in the core or someone could find some way to do an extension that makes quoting like any other board.

Bergamot

@adrian: Quoting does *not* belong in the core.

I could make a case that the default stylesheet should include blockquote styling rules, but even that is questionable.

At any rate, Vanilla is not "like any other board", and we kinda like it that way, because quoting posts on other boards quite frankly sucks. Why force a page refresh when you don't have to?

adrian.

ha, ok. so vanilla is strictly for "you" is it? guess mark doesn't need to bother working to make vanilla work on diffrent platforms when it obviously only needs to be suitable for your needs.

Jazzman

Who needs quoating anyway?

adrian.

my band of messageboard misfits :)

Minisweeper

Adrian clearly thats not what bergamot was saying since he's the guy who made the quoting addon to begin with. Something tells me if he wanted vanilla just for him it would be in the core along with the bbcode and other addons he's made as he probably uses them.

Unless you missed the bill somewhere, vanilla is a 'fresh new forum' which is designed to be as simple as possible. I'm willing to guess if you found the quote extension on a forum you were a user of (not an admin) you wouldnt even know that it was an extension anyway and would just assume it was part of the core (ignoring the problems). Even as a core function it could easily still have the problems which have been discovered if it had not been completely thought through as in this case it hasnt.

Also, Mark doesnt need to bother working to make vanilla work *at all*. He's not being paid for it and noone can make him do anything. Where cross-platform capabilities come into its ability to let users quote each other i'm not entirely sure.

I'm sure as a style creator you can understand that stuff doesnt always work 100% first time in every situation and things nearly always need (or could use) a bit of improvement over a period of time.

As for the issue at hand, I'm not sure how best to deal with it. Is it possible to make the add comments form appear at the bottom of a page even when it's not meant to be there? That way if someone quoted someone on an earlier page it could create the add comments form and insert the quote, then add a notice highlighting that it's not the last page of the discussion and some stuff may have been added since. I dunno how ideal or complex this is but it's just another option.

Bergamot

so vanilla is strictly for "you" is it?

If you mean "you" in the same way I meant "we" (meaning "the vanilla community"), then yes, that's exactly who it's for.

Vanilla is not a phpBB clone, and was never meant to be one. It's a phpBB alternative. Some people like the things it does differently, some people don't. The former use it, maybe modify it a little and add extensions, but maintain the basic design principles that make it so nice. The latter either use something else, or try to shoehorn Vanilla into doing some very unVanillalike things, usually with dismal results.

guess mark doesn't need to bother working to make vanilla work on diffrent platforms when it obviously only needs to be suitable for your needs.

Who said anything about other platforms? I simply said that your "force a page refresh every time someone wants to quote something" plan was annoying, confusing, and contrary to the principles Mark exhibited when he stuck the "Add your comments" field at the bottom of the thread rather than on its own page.

EDIT: Ack, mini got there first.

adrian.

well, on a similar note, replying to a whisper thats not on the last page also doesn't work if you click the reply button.

Minisweeper

True dat. This is definitely something which needs considering then.
How hard is my idea to implement?

adrian.

I'm looking at the post.php page now with something in mind.

remouk

My question is: "Why isn't the 'Add you comment' box in every single page of a discussion?". There's no reason why it's only on the last page... Btw, it forces you to go there and load another page if you want to reply. Hu?