Is "Applicant" A Role? Can "Applicants" Have Specific Permissions?

jfischer

We use "Applicant Email Verification" 0.4.2.b, and it works fine.

We also use "Applicant Discovery" 1.2, and it also works fine.
We changed the "Discovery" text to a question that can only be
answered by members of a certain group. (We want to preserve
anonymity, but at the same time,we want to verify that members
of the forum are members of that certain group.)

Now, some people apparently can't read, and get the answer
to the simple question wrong. Their e-mail has been verified,
but they are stuck in "Applicant" status until the admin approves
their membership, which requires a correct answer.

So, " Page Manager" 2.4.3 to the rescue! We create a tab/page
that can only be seen by "Applicants", informing them that if they
can't log in and post, they should send an e-mail to the admin,
and answer the question correctly. Sounds easy, but there
is no Applicant Role to assign "permission" to see this
otherwise "hidden from navigation" tab.

Can we create a Role named "Applicant", and make all this work,
or will creating a Role named "Applicant" conflict with the actual
user status "Applicant", and cause problems?

We'd rather not be sending e-mails out to each and every person
who makes a typo, or misreads the question. We'd rather make
this "self-service".

Can I buy a vowel?

Minisweeper

You could just create a new role called 'Waiting' or whatever, instead of actually using the word 'Applicant'?

jfischer

I hesitated to do so, as "Applicant" seemed to be what the Registration Settings
used by default, and I cannot claim to understand the internals.

My concern was that the ability to review and approve new registrations
would be lost if the "New Member Role" was anything but "Applicant".

I can see how the initial "Membership Approval Role" might be some
sort of restricted membership mode, but we are talking about
people who have registered, responded to their e-mail verification
message, but have not (yet) properly proved that they are entitled
to membership.

If this can be done without screwing things up, please say so.
I'm very new to Vanilla, so I'd rather not screw up what is
otherwise a well-running install with minimal tweaks.

Minisweeper

Well if changing the new member role to something else does cause the member approval system to break then that's a pretty major bug in vanilla and needs ironing out. I don't have an installation to test it on so if you could give it a shot yourself and let us know how it goes I'd appreciate it. I honestly dont imagine it would cause any problems though.

jfischer

OK, it can be made to work. "Page Manager" 2.4.3 seems to have a problem, in that if you create a page of html, it creates a link for the tab that points to a non-existent directory "page" in the vanilla root directory. (I just created a discussion, closed it, sunk it, and pointed the tab to that discussion, as it was easier than messing with the apparent "Page Manager" bug). But, if one creates a new role (for example, "Pending"), and assigns the "Applicant Role" to this new role, one can create a custom view that includes only the "Discussions" tab and another tab explaining why they can't post just yet, and what they can do about it. But - here's a question - is the e-mail verification a prerequisite to having a new user appear in the queue of users awaiting approval? I sure hope so.

Minisweeper

I think that's part of the verification extension settings isnt it?

jfischer

It does NOT work as expected.

If the "New Member Role" is anything BUT "Applicant", one looses the
ability to see the "New Applicant" using the "New Applicants 1.3" extension.

"Applicant Email Verification 0.4.2.b" sends out the e-mail, the new Applicant
clicks on the link, and they do NOT appear as a "New Applicant", so one cannot
see the answer to the question posed by "Applicant Discovery 1.2". (This is
obvious when you think about it, as the "Applicant Discovery" and "New
Applicant" extensions depend upon the Role of "Applicant".

So, it looks like the best approach for now, is to leave the Registration
Settings to "Applicant" and "Member", and simply use the "Change Role"
feature to move those who do not answer correctly into the "Pending"
role.

But, I'll ask again - If "Applicant" is a valid Role, why does it not appear
as a role (separate from "Unauthenticated") and have its own permissions?

Maybe what we need here is a definition of "Unverified" vs "Applicant".
To me, it looks like the use of "Applicant Email Verification 0.4.2.b" implies
that "Unverified" are people who have not (yet) clicked on the link sent to them by
"Applicant Email Verification 0.4.2.b", while "Applicants" are people who have
clicked on the link and verified their e-mail address, but have not yet been
approved by checking their box when one sees their user-id (and their answer to
the question posed by "Applicant Discovery 1.2").

Once one clicks on the link, one then has a "Member", who can post.

I write this not because I think anything is "broken", but merely to document what
happens when one tries to do some additional verification, and provide self-help
messages for those who are "stuck" in a Role less than "Member".

jfischer

Oops, editing a comment does not bump the discussion!
Silly me - that's behavior one should expect from Vanilla.

Minisweeper

>If the "New Member Role" is anything BUT "Applicant", one looses the
>ability to see the "New Applicant" using the "New Applicants 1.3" extension.

I'd say that was a bug with the extensions to be honest. As for why the 'Applicant' 'role' isnt in the roles and permissions, I'm not sure...