NaNaNana, Hey, Hey.. Goodbye!

Bergamot

yea, my pet peeve is the whole issue of not supporting PNG transparencies until now... not to mention the lack of compliant CSS support (which they are NOT going to fix).

I was under the impression that they *were* fixing those things for IE7.

http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/07/29/445242.aspx

In IE7, we will fix as many of the worst bugs that web developers hit as we can, and we will add the critical most-requested features from the standards as well. Though you won’t see (most of) these until Beta 2, we have already fixed the following bugs from PositionIsEverything and Quirksmode:Peekaboo bug Guillotine bugDuplicate Character bugBorder ChaosNo Scroll bug3 Pixel Text JogMagic Creeping Text bugBottom Margin bug on HoverLosing the ability to highlight text under the top borderIE/Win Line-height bugDouble Float Margin BugQuirky Percentages in IEDuplicate indentMoving viewport scrollbar outside HTML borders 1 px border style Disappearing List-backgroundFix width:auto
In addition we’ve added support for the followingHTML 4.01 ABBR tag Improved (though not yet perfect) <object> fallbackCSS 2.1 Selector support (child, adjacent, attribute, first-child etc.) CSS 2.1 Fixed positioning Alpha channel in PNG images Fix :hover on all elementsBackground-attachment: fixed on all elements not just body

lech

Small part: browser. Large part: beast of fucking burden. Execute it.

Minisweeper

"In IE7, we will fix as many of the worst bugs that web developers hit as we can, and we will add the critical most-requested features from the standards as well" - any particular reason theyre not fixing *all* the bugs, and adding *all* the standards?

giginger

Probably because of the number of site that rely on the bugs in their software.

Kosmo

The strange thing is that they have been talking about not adding CSS3 support.

Bergamot

any particular reason theyre not fixing *all* the bugs, and adding *all* the standards?
Because:

1. The man-hours that can be devoted to this project are limited
2. Absolute bulletproof security is a much more important issue
3. The CSS spec is an *extremely* complex, vague, and nonintuitive document, which no browser fully supports.

Probably because of the number of site that rely on the bugs in their software.
I'm pretty sure the official word on bug-dependant sites is "fuck em". That, and "use conditional comments".


The strange thing is that they have been talking about not adding CSS3 support.
I tend to agree with them about this; it's not a finished standard.

Way to go W3C, now it will be five *more* years before anyone cares about CSS3.

NickE

It's funny to hear everyone complaining about IE and Windows when they themselves couldn't make anything near those.

Bergamot

Well I don't really subscribe to the "If you can't do it, you're unqualified to criticize it" theory. I don't need to be an expert pianist to know that the guy I'm listening to is terrible. Which is also how I criticize the W3C endlessly even though I don't personally have the time to draft a competing standard.

NickE

I wasn't saying you shouldn't critize it, I was just expressing my annoyance at this whole 'winblows is teh suck' mentality when many of the people supporting it don't have the faintest idea how much work went behind it (not talking about anyone on this forum specifically, just in general). Also the stereotypical idea that linux is ten times better than windows. There was a huge argument about all this over on jinx a while back, but the forums seem to be down at the moment; I'll give you a link when it's back up. might be of some interest: http://www.jinx.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13011 (the real argument starts on like 2 or 3)

timberford

I'm pretty sure the official word on bug-dependant sites is "fuck em". That, and "use conditional comments".

i think that's the case generally, but i suspect there are exceptions... imagine the ie7 development team, proud of their standards compliant browser, present it to the big m$ execs and the first thing they do is visit one of the most popular websites in the world. e.g. ebay and it was broken. the execs at microsoft are just gunna go tell the development team to go back and "put it right".

Bergamot

Well it should also be mentioned that most of those bug fixes only work in strict mode, so any sites that fall through to quirks mode will look like they've always done.

lech

I honestly don't have many <em>major</em> gripes about windows. However, over the years, it's like playing katamari damacy. You start out small, fast, it's great to run around with it. But now it's slowly getting bigger, and bigger, and eventually it's gonna become a this huge monster (not that it already is?). Ok, so now what I really want to know is : when is this thing gonna super-nova, and pull my computer inside-out? Windows is great otherwise, it just needs some serious cleaning-up and could lose some weight with all the useless default add-ons and other built in hooks for stuff you'll probably never use. But I think in order to not derail the topic any further, I'll stop here :) Bringing it back on topic: With the W3C creating nearly a dozen drafts of the HTML/XHTML spec, it's no wonder browser rendering is fubar. However, there needs to be some kind of globally accepted rule, like with most software that goes un-updated for a while, that it must be retired or reintroduced as a new product built from the ground up. IE7 would be a prime candidate for that rule. I frankly wouldn't mind having to live with only XHTML Strict. Then I would have to get it right or die trying. As would the browser programmer. :D

Minisweeper

I'm not an anti-ms fanboy. But stuff like this really irritates me: We're sorry, but we don't currently support the browser or computer you are using. The browser and operating system you are using is Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.2; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050915 Firefox/1.0.7. Currently, you need Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher, or certain versions of Netscape, running on a PC, to access our website. We are also hoping to make the website compatible with Mac computers and the latest version of Netscape very soon. If you have a PC running an earlier version of Internet Explorer, it's easy to download a more recent browser and it's completely free. Simply press the button below. Once downloaded, you will be able to use this website. ...why?