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Internet Explorer Boycott

edited September 2006 in Vanilla 1.0 Help
A few months ago Safari got some sweet new CSS3 features. So I started playing around and making a new design. "Designing webpages is going to be a breeze from now on!" I thought. "And we're going to save so much bandwidth too." I knew Firefox was also starting to implement some of the finished CSS3 standards, and that Opera was not far behind. But then I came to think about Internet Explorer, and I was immediately depressed. No.. the word I'm looking for is mad. Furiously mad. Internet Explorer is still struggling with CSS2. How frikkin' hard can it be to support such basic things such as min-width and margin: 0 auto? And how great wouldn't it be if you didn't have to worry about IE not supporting 8-bit transparency in PNGs?

So. What I'm suggesting is not a complete boycott. But whenever you design a new webpage, don't think about IE. Write the CSS considering only Firefox, Safari and Opera. When you're done, make a new CSS for IE. Make it close, but don't spend too much time. If MS doesn't want to spend any time on you, the webdesigner, why should you spend any time on them? Step 3 is to create a piece of JavaScript or PHP code to give IE users the new CSS, and add a small note saying you should upgrade to show this page properly. Using JavaScript you can just test for ActiveX. Using PHP you'll have to check the user-agent, but remember that some people spoof their user-agent string (tell them not to =P)

Seriously. Microsoft is obviously holding back web development. When do you think they'll support the canvas tag (i know it's not a standard yet, but Safari, Firefox and Opera all support it)? 3 years? 6 years? Never? It's just a matter of changing the way we think of Internet Explorer. Don't think of it as a "standard", think of it as the Notepad of Web-browsers. It's the browser people use before they've bothered to upgrade.
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    MarkMark Vanilla Staff
    If only it were that easy.
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    It's what I'm doing with my site. Admittedly it's not a major website on the internet so won't make a difference but if a lot of people do it maybe it would send a message to Microsoft and they'd liven up on the support. Sadly, there's a lot of so called professionals out there who don't consider standards important. It's a shame.
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    edited January 2006
    I'm no fan of Internet Explorer's CSS support, but I usually end up defending them in these discussions. And when Gecko properly renders display:inline-block, you can start lecturing me about how incredibly evil it is to not fully support a 5 year old standard.
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    edited January 2006
    "So. What I'm suggesting is not a complete boycott. But whenever you design a new webpage, don't think about IE. Write the CSS considering only Firefox, Safari and Opera. When you're done, make a new CSS for IE." Isn't that what everyone's been doing for years?
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    Isn't Safari the only browser to have passed the Acid 2 test?
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    edited January 2006
    And alienate the 80% of web visitors that aren't nerds (no offense to anyone, I use it too)? Admittidly I wish Microsoft would put more time into explorer, but because it's bundled with Windows, it's what people use. Users shouldn't have to download a browser just to view your site properly. Bottom line is, it's the web developers responsibility to cater to their audience, whatever browser they're using.
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    MarkMark Vanilla Staff
    *golf clap*

    At the same time, however, I think it is important for people who don't *need* to cater to IE to not be bothered so that the big companies eventually will begin to feel the pinch.
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    giginger: didn't Konquerer pass it about a month ago?
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    The thing i dont get about IE is why people still use it anyway. OK so it's the one that comes with the OS and most people dont know better but even ignoring standards entirely it's still a crap browser. I actually couldnt survive any longer without tabs. I suggested my friend use firefox and he was confused at first but after about a day he goes 'tabs are incredible, i couldnt live without them'. Not to mention the extra bookmarkng capabilities and whatever else, IE in general is a shocking piece of software compared to whats available in the market.
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    I think that in order to get fewer people to use IE, Firefox folks are going to have to go into every friend's home or office and install Firefox for them. And if they don't have alarm systems or dogs, going in the middle of the night is okay, too. A lot of people just don't think about browsers. If you use windows, you use IE. That's what my dad does. He isn't online much, admittedly, so he doesn't think about tabs or live bookmarks, thing that folks like us who live and breathe online do. So maybe going door to door would help....
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    You're effectively shooting the hostage. The only people that will be affected are the users on IE who see the flaws in your site and decide not to come back. Microsoft won't give two hoots if you don't code for their browser. The better course of action is to do as silverwing says - evangilize Firefox.
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    Or wait nine months.
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    Bergamot, you pregnant? ;0)
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    "do as silverwing says" I wish more people would follow that advice! ;0) -- knockknock -- "Hi, I'm with the Church of Mozilla of Modern Browsers and I'd like to know, Do you know Firefox and the Freedom it can give you?"
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    lechlech Chicagoland
    The one thing people need to understand is that the acid test isn't a real test, it's more of a quirks mode challenge to see how well the browser can display things given the circumstances it's being pressed under. I don't believe even the w3c will even use it as a measuring tool. Also the last time I checked, Konqeror rendered things pretty poorly.
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    http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/1129 I agree that Acid2 was not meant to be a comprehensive test of CSS2 compliance. It *was* supposed to highlight several bugs that were too obscure to be caught in normal testing, and it did a good job of that.
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    edited January 2006
    This thread is crap :P.

    Honestly, you think you can fsking boycott a MICROSOFT product? Yeah right. I hate IE - but if you're getting paid for webdesign, then they won't be happy seeing you drop out 80% of the browsing public.

    Can this thread be deleted now?
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    As nice and flexible as Firefox may be, I still find it's performance in regard to CPU/memory usage dismal. If you're on a normal computer, this wouldn't be of a problem, but since the family internet laptop's got a habit of over-heating and crashing on you, you can instantly tell Firefox really needs to clean up its act. Just start it up and you can hear the fans increasing, then go to a graphic-intense website and watch Firefox wholly freeze up on you.
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    ^ Fiiiiiiigarool!

    Use opera.
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    One step ahead of you.
This discussion has been closed.