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I'm not a hobbyist...

edited May 2012 in Feedback

Have you noticed lately, when you click on the Vanilla download link, you're presented with two options:

Hobbyists: Download Now
Big Communities: See Plans and Pricing

I support a community of more than 15,000 members sending hundreds of thousands of messages per month. This is not a hobby.

Vanilla's paid plans look like a great option for an organization that does not have the in-house staff to integrate and manage a robust forum solution, and I would probably consider one of them if our integration and security requirements were less complicated.

Does Vanilla really look at me as a "Hobbyist", someone who is tinkering with this software for fun? I've devoted hundreds of hours to learning this software, made several useful posts on Vanilla's developer forums (and some not so useful, like this one), and made a commitment to helping improve an excellent Open Source platform.

Basically, I'm doing Vanilla's R&D for free.

So, am I the only professional developer building a large, internally hosted community, who is slightly insulted by Vanilla's new "marketing strategy"?

I want them to make pot loads of money from their hosted platform, but calling me a "hobbyist" makes me leery of referring less technically savvy clients to them for a turn-key solution. It also makes me question the support I'm giving their open source efforts.

Vanilla, please change your marketing of your Open Source download compared to your paid services. You're insulting your developer community and devaluing your Open Source efforts.

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Comments

  • seriously??

    grep is your friend.

  • Seriously.

  • LincLinc Detroit Admin

    People see "free" and think "oh sweet I can do that!" and they get themselves into a heap of trouble and come back asking for help again. This is especially true of non-technical business owners. That seemed the best terminology to communicate to those people that downloading forum software is not a quick DIY project.

  • I should put (php) developers and leave it at that.

    grep is your friend.

  • @Lincoln, I think you're missing an opportunity here. When they get themselves in a heap trouble and come back to you for help, either direct them to your paid service, or pass them off to a Vanilla Solutions Provider (i.e., those of us who aren't hobbyists).

  • ToddTodd Chief Product Officer Vanilla Staff

    First off, we've been using the hobbyist wording for I think over two years now. You're the only person that I know whose taken offense to that.

    Second off, it is not our intent to offend people with that wording, especially people like you that want to contribute to the project.

    As @lincoln has said though, most of the people that come here don't have any ability to code. This makes sense to me as most people that use the Internet don't have the ability to code. They are hobbyists (or whatever).

    Please know that we aren't a giant company with a marketing team picking over the language we use after focus-grouping every page we write. We are guys that are working hard every day to improve the software we love building. We are developers first, marketers second.

    UnderDog
  • 422422 Developer MVP

    Hobbyist is an acronym for.

    Hosted on big boxes yielding independant server technology

  • hbfhbf wiki guy? MVP

    I think switching the term to developers would be fine. Might even turn away a few of the people the really ought to opt for a hosted solution.

    That said, I wasn't offended. I'm just glad it didn't say "free loading hack programmers - click here"

    UnderDog
  • 422422 Developer MVP

    your 'click here' link isn't working LOL !

    UnderDog
  • hbfhbf wiki guy? MVP

    peregrine said:
    You requested a mod here it is 422.

    cut and paste this into your console and execute it. You should get your click :)

    jQuery(document).ready(function($) {
    $('p:contains(hack)').replaceWith('<a href="http://vanillawiki.homebrewforums.net/index.php/Main_Page">free loading hack programmers - click here </a>');
    });
    

    both funny and informative. i learned something, thanks.

    candymanUnderDog422peregrine
  • peregrineperegrine MVP
    edited May 2012

    If it weren't for you and your wiki - I probably wouldn't even be posting. I would have given up months ago.

    I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.

  • I'm not a basket weaver.

    grep is your friend.

    Kasper
  • @Todd, I understand that you guys are focusing on development. I just want to make sure that, when I present Vanilla Forums to a client, the client doesn't come back to me the next day and say: "Why are you trying to sell me this cookie-cutter hobbyist (insert you favorite expletive)? Give me a professional-grade solution, like vBulletin or PHPBB. If you think my business is a hobby, I'll take it elsewhere."

    Oops.

    I appreciate you considering making the change, even if I'm the only person to complain. If you'd like some more "open source" marketing advise, I'm happy to share.

    aery
  • I understand that you guys are focusing on development. I just want to make sure that, when I present Vanilla Forums to a client, the client doesn't come back to me the next day and say: "Why are you trying to sell me this cookie-cutter hobbyist (insert you favorite expletive)? Give me a professional-grade solution, like vBulletin or PHPBB. If you think my business is a hobby, I'll take it elsewhere."

    I completely agree. If Vanilla is released as open source software, it should be treated as such.

    aery
  • x00x00 MVP
    edited May 2012

    sorry but what is not open source about hobbies?.

    Balderdash. OS is everything from rank amateur, to highly professional.

    Many os stuff is for the hobbyist and by extension professional for example Processing and Arduino.

    I hate people who try to pigeonhole OS (yes that includes GPL extremists).

    I have never really had a client make that complaint, and I've heard it all. I tend not sell a software in that way, you need to explain why it is useful to them. If it isn't don't use it.

    grep is your friend.

  • edited May 2012

    Yes, you can use open source tools for your hobbies.

    But you can use them for professional reasons too.

    At the end of the day, it might not be a big issue. But the fact remains that the word "hobbyist" doesn't give the impression (at least to me) that you are downloading a complete and powerful tool, ready to be used in professional situations.

    P. S.
    I am Lorenzo, the same person who wrote the previous comment. By mistake I logged in with another google account.

  • 422422 Developer MVP

    Next you will be arguing if it should be called a board not a forum, fgs you guys have too much time on your hands.

    To say your clients woudnt be impressed is bullshit.

    If your clients saw the word hobbyist, says little for your abilities as so called developers.

    Get over it and move on !

    P.s. Is badges being released !

  • hbfhbf wiki guy? MVP

    422 said:

    P.s. Is badges being released !

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

  • 422 said:
    P.s. Is badges being released !

    ooh... ooh... maybe we should have a weekly new topic about that in the discussion forum, to keep the topic 'alive'...

    We already have a trigger installed that once a topic about 'badges' get started or bumped to the top, a text message gets sent to 422 in the middle of his night... ( LOL )

    422
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