@vrijvlinder said:
off topic but since the crew is here , check this out, I don't mind if people ask me if they can publish anything I have posted on here, as long as it is not taken out of context. Seems there are beating posts out there lol . I don't like that what i wrote was manipulated and distorted. They even called me a techie lmao.
I apologise if my post is in any way offensive to you. I just would like to point out that I didn't "manipulate" or "distort" what you wrote, I extracted some parts of the answer to indicate what, in my opinion, are not good answers. I didn't put references on purpose, as I didn't want the post to be connected to anyone in particular.
Anyway, I interpreted your comment as a complaint against the post and, therefore, I removed it. Sorry if it offended you, that was not the intention.
By the way, "techie" is simply short for "Technical User"; it was not meant as a sarcasm, if that's what you are wondering.
Additional note
I reviewed the post. Although it doesn't contain any direct reference to a specific individuals, I acknowledge that some parts of it were not appropriate. I removed it and replaced it with an apology. Sorry about any inconvenience caused, that won't happen again.
@GaryFunk said:
$5 and $35, which is cheap, by any standard. I guess the question is, can sell enough of each?
It would be $5 and $15, actually. To be honest, I don't expect many sales, the market for plugins is not so big and many Users who would be interested in them, often, don't have a budget for such purchases.
That's one of the reasons behind the slow development of the Badges plugin: high development cost, little chance to recover it. Not that anyone forced me to work on it, of course, it was my idea.
No worries about maintenance and support: in worst case, I will pass my plugins to someone else who might be interested in "nurturing" them.
apologise if my post is in any way offensive to you
not offensive after all I wrote some of it. But the story is missing the part where the Asker was disrespectful to the us used snidely remarks . We tried very hard to help that person but they had a chip on the shoulder or something. Blamed us for not being able to understand what we explained.
I think the issue is that some people come here and expect robots without feelings or egos. Picking a tech savvy person to help you is easy but everyone has their approach based on their disposition.
I was set as an example of someone who gives ratz ass, and I am not that way. Much time was spent helping that person. But they had a fit and left.
I guess that serves as an example of what happens when people get together and don't get along. It is a personality thing . But it is hardly monopolized by techsavvvy people.
I think laying out a guideline for interaction with people would help. Those who come seeking help should be prepared with a complete question and facts. just saying : it doesn't work , is not enough information, so I asked please explain what happens.
They took it as an attack. I merely pointed out that using a cristall ball or pinning the tail on a donkey is what they were expecting for answers if they did not give more description of the problem.
Snidely remarks to be kept at a minimum on both sides. Mutual respect is the best approach.
I am not a techie , I am a mexi-mechie apprentice of the techie.....
@vrijvlinder said:
not offensive after all I wrote some of it. But the story is missing the part where the Asker was disrespectful to the us used snidely remarks . We tried very hard to help that person but they had a chip on the shoulder or something. Blamed us for not being able to understand what we explained.
I looked for that post (I had forgotten about it), but I didn't have the feeling that the User was so rude towards the community. I think she was just frustrated and her lack of knowledge made things worse, which, I believe, is the reason why she might have been annoyed by your straightforward answer.
I might have been unlucky, but this kind of people represent a good 80% of all the Clients I had to deal with: frustrated, in a hurry, shouting "nothing works" and expecting the solution by yesterday (I met last one about two weeks ago). As much as I would like to tell them where to go, I learned to adopt a soft, "simil-tai chi" technique to absorb the first impact, after which they normally calm down and apologise.
I think the issue is that some people come here and expect robots without feelings or egos. Picking a tech savvy person to help you is easy but everyone has their approach based on their disposition.
That's right. Personally, I believe that the approach towards customers should always be collaborative, unless they insist in being rude. I start with the assumption that they are all "going to die" and try to put myself in their shoes. Sometimes it's unfortunate, but Consultants are at Clients' service. The difference, on this forum, is that such Consultants are not paid, but, in my opinion, they should still act as if they were (at least initially).
I was set as an example of someone who gives ratz ass, and I am not that way. Much time was spent helping that person. But they had a fit and left.
That was not the intention, therefore I feel that an apology was due. I'm known to use colourful remarks in my writing, but I can't figure out what I was thinking when I wrote that post, it must have been a very bad day and I went too far. On the (slightly) positive side, there was no reference to you personally, nor to your post.
I think laying out a guideline for interaction with people would help. Those who come seeking help should be prepared with a complete question and facts.
I think your opinion is shared by many Professionals, but, based on my experience, I'm afraid that we can't ask this to the Users. It's the drawback of creating user friendly software: anybody can use it, whether they have a clue of what they do, or not. Therefore, "nothing works" is a problem "description" to be expected, and it should be managed properly, to ensure Customer Satisfaction. A Tech Support Team Leader once said "we have to take the Users' hand and guide them". I know, it sounds like dealing with children, but I assure you, it's much more difficult.
One final note, to answer a potential question: why should we put up with whimsical Users, since they are not our Clients? The answer is: we don't have to. Personally, when I see unclear questions (e.g. "nothing works, we are all going to die!"), I adopt one of two approaches:
1- Ignore them. If I have the strong feeling that Users will be nothing but trouble, I simply pass.
2- Reply to them once, trying to ask the right questions so that they can give a clearer overview of the issue. If this works, either I or other Users will continue helping them; if not, pass again.
Approach n. 2 is the one that put me in contact with a few clients in the past (not only on Vanilla community). I happened to be the only one showing some "sympathy", if we want to call it like this, and they contacted me in private to analyse their issue.
Bottom line
To summarise, I believe that soft skills are of utmost importance when dealing with Clients and non technical Users, and that some "nonsensical" questions should be handled, rather than rejected.
Yes you are right, and even though I was not personally named , I remember everything I ever wrote so when I see my words it freaks me out coz I did not put them there. But if you want to keep them it is fine, just like to know where they end up in case I need to refuse some claim others might make about what was said .
The key is mutual respect and capacity assessment. If they are below basic, do we tutor them until they understand the basics? Is it an insult to spread knowledge they need by asking them to take a course or read a book on the subject?
What is the limit? And some don't even care they get the answer and never to comeback...
I like it when people figure it out on their own, then share how they fixed it. That is the only payment required from them. It shows appreciation for the community.
@vrijvlinder said:
Yes you are right, and even though I was not personally named , I remember everything I ever wrote so when I see my words it freaks me out coz I did not put them there. But if you want to keep them it is fine, just like to know where they end up in case I need to refuse some claim others might make about what was said .
I appreciate that. Post has been taken down permanently, though, and, if it will reappear, it will be rewritten.
The key is mutual respect and capacity assessment. If they are below basic, do we tutor them until they understand the basics?
To be straightforward: in my opinion, yes.
Is it an insult to spread knowledge they need by asking them to take a course or read a book on the subject?
It's not, but it depends on how it is communicated. Often, a direct answer could sound offensive, even when it's not meant to be.
Let's imagine you go to the doctor saying that your belly hurts. The doctor would be quite right in telling you something like "there is no belly, such word indicates the lower abdomen, which contains many parts that could be causing the pain". Then he could tell you to study anatomy, learn the various types of pain, and come back when you are able to indicate with clear, medical words what symptoms you have. In short, he would be asking you to learn basic medicine, before bothering him again.
Would that make sense? Rationally, that would save tons of time to the doctor and, probably, speed up diagnosis. Unfortunately, it's not practical, even when basic medicine is relatively easy to learn. That's why you get people like the guy who tells the doctor "I touch my shoulder, it hurts. I touch my leg, it hurts. I touch my head, it hurts. I touch my chest, it hurts", until the doctor makes him notice that he has a broken finger.
What is the limit? And some don't even care they get the answer and never to comeback...
In case of volunteering, the limit is the one you set. What I suggest is that, when you can't take it anymore, simply drop it. As you pointed out elsewhere, you don't have a duty to help, especially when people don't want to be helped. If they refuse to collaborate, leave them alone. Don't even bother to defend your position, to point out that we are volunteers, and so on. The uncooperative Users will keep their problems, they will curse for a while, and, maybe, they will ask again, more politely.
also giving help to someone here in the community works both ways, as i've tried helping other people i come to learn more and more and still willing to share. I'll personally ask for apology if i've offended some people as well. lack of knowledge is self-inflicting and could be channeled to other people as well . but good thing this community helped me alot . so guys dont feel bad if someone is rude to you asking questions. i experienced being frustrated and asking questions from time to time but it doesnt mean getting rude to other people who's willing to help
First of all, thanks to all the people who got the plugins and sent me their feedback so far. I would like to inform you that, following some good advice from @hbf, I updated the Hot Threads plugin.
Latest version now uses the date of Discussions' latest update to weigh their relevance. Using a simple calculation, it gives priority to newer hot discussions over old, stale ones that might have thousands of views and comments.
If you already downloaded the plugin, you should be able to get the latest version by simply clicking on the download link you received by email.
Upgrade note
I changed the name of some settings, therefore I recommend to disable and remove the previous version using the buttons in Vanilla dashboard before installing the new one.
Due to the modification, you will have to re-enter the configuration settings after installing the plugin (fortunately, there is just a handful of them). Sorry for the inconvenience.
Comments
I apologise if my post is in any way offensive to you. I just would like to point out that I didn't "manipulate" or "distort" what you wrote, I extracted some parts of the answer to indicate what, in my opinion, are not good answers. I didn't put references on purpose, as I didn't want the post to be connected to anyone in particular.
Anyway, I interpreted your comment as a complaint against the post and, therefore, I removed it. Sorry if it offended you, that was not the intention.
By the way, "techie" is simply short for "Technical User"; it was not meant as a sarcasm, if that's what you are wondering.
Additional note
I reviewed the post. Although it doesn't contain any direct reference to a specific individuals, I acknowledge that some parts of it were not appropriate. I removed it and replaced it with an apology. Sorry about any inconvenience caused, that won't happen again.
My shop | About Me
It would be $5 and $15, actually. To be honest, I don't expect many sales, the market for plugins is not so big and many Users who would be interested in them, often, don't have a budget for such purchases.
That's one of the reasons behind the slow development of the Badges plugin: high development cost, little chance to recover it. Not that anyone forced me to work on it, of course, it was my idea.
No worries about maintenance and support: in worst case, I will pass my plugins to someone else who might be interested in "nurturing" them.
My shop | About Me
Oh yeah, even better... and I had a good nights sleep.
not offensive after all I wrote some of it. But the story is missing the part where the Asker was disrespectful to the us used snidely remarks . We tried very hard to help that person but they had a chip on the shoulder or something. Blamed us for not being able to understand what we explained.
I think the issue is that some people come here and expect robots without feelings or egos. Picking a tech savvy person to help you is easy but everyone has their approach based on their disposition.
I was set as an example of someone who gives ratz ass, and I am not that way. Much time was spent helping that person. But they had a fit and left.
I guess that serves as an example of what happens when people get together and don't get along. It is a personality thing . But it is hardly monopolized by techsavvvy people.
I think laying out a guideline for interaction with people would help. Those who come seeking help should be prepared with a complete question and facts. just saying : it doesn't work , is not enough information, so I asked please explain what happens.
They took it as an attack. I merely pointed out that using a cristall ball or pinning the tail on a donkey is what they were expecting for answers if they did not give more description of the problem.
Snidely remarks to be kept at a minimum on both sides. Mutual respect is the best approach.
I am not a techie , I am a mexi-mechie apprentice of the techie.....
❌ ✊ ♥. ¸. ••. ¸♥¸. ••. ¸♥ ✊ ❌
I looked for that post (I had forgotten about it), but I didn't have the feeling that the User was so rude towards the community. I think she was just frustrated and her lack of knowledge made things worse, which, I believe, is the reason why she might have been annoyed by your straightforward answer.
I might have been unlucky, but this kind of people represent a good 80% of all the Clients I had to deal with: frustrated, in a hurry, shouting "nothing works" and expecting the solution by yesterday (I met last one about two weeks ago). As much as I would like to tell them where to go, I learned to adopt a soft, "simil-tai chi" technique to absorb the first impact, after which they normally calm down and apologise.
That's right. Personally, I believe that the approach towards customers should always be collaborative, unless they insist in being rude. I start with the assumption that they are all "going to die" and try to put myself in their shoes. Sometimes it's unfortunate, but Consultants are at Clients' service. The difference, on this forum, is that such Consultants are not paid, but, in my opinion, they should still act as if they were (at least initially).
That was not the intention, therefore I feel that an apology was due. I'm known to use colourful remarks in my writing, but I can't figure out what I was thinking when I wrote that post, it must have been a very bad day and I went too far. On the (slightly) positive side, there was no reference to you personally, nor to your post.
I think your opinion is shared by many Professionals, but, based on my experience, I'm afraid that we can't ask this to the Users. It's the drawback of creating user friendly software: anybody can use it, whether they have a clue of what they do, or not. Therefore, "nothing works" is a problem "description" to be expected, and it should be managed properly, to ensure Customer Satisfaction. A Tech Support Team Leader once said "we have to take the Users' hand and guide them". I know, it sounds like dealing with children, but I assure you, it's much more difficult.
One final note, to answer a potential question: why should we put up with whimsical Users, since they are not our Clients? The answer is: we don't have to. Personally, when I see unclear questions (e.g. "nothing works, we are all going to die!"), I adopt one of two approaches:
1- Ignore them. If I have the strong feeling that Users will be nothing but trouble, I simply pass.
2- Reply to them once, trying to ask the right questions so that they can give a clearer overview of the issue. If this works, either I or other Users will continue helping them; if not, pass again.
Approach n. 2 is the one that put me in contact with a few clients in the past (not only on Vanilla community). I happened to be the only one showing some "sympathy", if we want to call it like this, and they contacted me in private to analyse their issue.
Bottom line
To summarise, I believe that soft skills are of utmost importance when dealing with Clients and non technical Users, and that some "nonsensical" questions should be handled, rather than rejected.
And another wall of text is here...
My shop | About Me
Yes you are right, and even though I was not personally named , I remember everything I ever wrote so when I see my words it freaks me out coz I did not put them there. But if you want to keep them it is fine, just like to know where they end up in case I need to refuse some claim others might make about what was said .
The key is mutual respect and capacity assessment. If they are below basic, do we tutor them until they understand the basics? Is it an insult to spread knowledge they need by asking them to take a course or read a book on the subject?
What is the limit? And some don't even care they get the answer and never to comeback...
I like it when people figure it out on their own, then share how they fixed it. That is the only payment required from them. It shows appreciation for the community.
❌ ✊ ♥. ¸. ••. ¸♥¸. ••. ¸♥ ✊ ❌
I appreciate that. Post has been taken down permanently, though, and, if it will reappear, it will be rewritten.
To be straightforward: in my opinion, yes.
It's not, but it depends on how it is communicated. Often, a direct answer could sound offensive, even when it's not meant to be.
Let's imagine you go to the doctor saying that your belly hurts. The doctor would be quite right in telling you something like "there is no belly, such word indicates the lower abdomen, which contains many parts that could be causing the pain". Then he could tell you to study anatomy, learn the various types of pain, and come back when you are able to indicate with clear, medical words what symptoms you have. In short, he would be asking you to learn basic medicine, before bothering him again.
Would that make sense? Rationally, that would save tons of time to the doctor and, probably, speed up diagnosis. Unfortunately, it's not practical, even when basic medicine is relatively easy to learn. That's why you get people like the guy who tells the doctor "I touch my shoulder, it hurts. I touch my leg, it hurts. I touch my head, it hurts. I touch my chest, it hurts", until the doctor makes him notice that he has a broken finger.
In case of volunteering, the limit is the one you set. What I suggest is that, when you can't take it anymore, simply drop it. As you pointed out elsewhere, you don't have a duty to help, especially when people don't want to be helped. If they refuse to collaborate, leave them alone. Don't even bother to defend your position, to point out that we are volunteers, and so on. The uncooperative Users will keep their problems, they will curse for a while, and, maybe, they will ask again, more politely.
My shop | About Me
I will work on my bedside manner then
❌ ✊ ♥. ¸. ••. ¸♥¸. ••. ¸♥ ✊ ❌
@vrijvlinder helped me alot
also giving help to someone here in the community works both ways, as i've tried helping other people i come to learn more and more and still willing to share. I'll personally ask for apology if i've offended some people as well. lack of knowledge is self-inflicting and could be channeled to other people as well . but good thing this community helped me alot .
so guys dont feel bad if someone is rude to you asking questions. i experienced being frustrated and asking questions from time to time 
but it doesnt mean getting rude to other people who's willing to help
A small update
First of all, thanks to all the people who got the plugins and sent me their feedback so far. I would like to inform you that, following some good advice from @hbf, I updated the Hot Threads plugin.
Latest version now uses the date of Discussions' latest update to weigh their relevance. Using a simple calculation, it gives priority to newer hot discussions over old, stale ones that might have thousands of views and comments.
If you already downloaded the plugin, you should be able to get the latest version by simply clicking on the download link you received by email.
Upgrade note
I changed the name of some settings, therefore I recommend to disable and remove the previous version using the buttons in Vanilla dashboard before installing the new one.
Due to the modification, you will have to re-enter the configuration settings after installing the plugin (fortunately, there is just a handful of them). Sorry for the inconvenience.
My shop | About Me