Then sell a grey/white/enhanced/pro version directly.
ThemeForest may have a large userbase dedicated to themes, but as you noticed, that userbase is made up of non-vanilla users, so who cares about them.
Vanilla users are on this forum mostly, and don't care if you sell on ThemeForest or somewhere else, we are ready to buy from you, but not on ThemeForest's terms.
You can’t Sell the End Product, except to one client. (If you or your client want to Sell the End Product, you will need the Extended License.)
End Product is a customised implementation of the Item
This license is really weird. Reading it, it looks like no lawyer ever read this over. People using themes to theme their websites are not usually selling what this license terms the end product, ie. the website. They sometimes do sell access to portions of the website, or put advertising on their site to earn money, but never is the actual website for sale.
In any case, the "sale" of the license has taken place already. I don't see anything barring a renegotiaion of the license itself, even if you are prohibited from selling it elsewhere.
This license can be terminated if you breach it. If that happens, you must stop making copies of or distributing the End Product until you remove the Item from it.
So if someone breaches the license, they can still use your template, just that they can't make copies of it or distribute the website until it template it removed from the website. Funny.
seems pretty clear to me. jspautsch has a contract with themeforest which is his contract.
which has nothing to do with your contract as a purchaser. meaning you can only transfer your license to one person (a sale to someone else. you no longer have the license), unless you bought the extended license which means you can sell the end-product.
it actually protects jspautsch from people who want to sell his product and make money off his sweat., he actually does got a %age of extended license sales as I read into it.
I applaud jspautsch for selling a nice product. At least he gets some reimbursement for sweat. If he depended on donations, he might get lots of promises, but probably unfulfilled ones. or ones like I'll send you a $10 donation, after I make my first 100 million dollars.
I find it amusing, @anonymoose first you have an issue with lack of premium themes, than you have a problem with the price and the place that the user has decided to sell their product. What is an appropriate price @anonymoose for plugins and themes, and where should they sell it? so future developers will gain from you expertise in this matter.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
@Anonymoose said:
Except the website owner does not "sell" the end product, even if he allows people to access a website for a fee, that is not a "sale" of the product.
Actually, it does. ThemeForest defines the end product as what you build with the item you buy. So the theme is the item, and with the item you build your forum. Your forum is now the end product.
The item is what you purchase from the Envato marketplaces. The end product is what you build with that item. Example: The item is a business card template; the end product is the finalized business card. The item is a button graphic; the end product is an app using the button graphic in the app's interface.
With that definition in mind, the licensing now makes sense, because if user need to pay to access your forum, they're paying to get the end product. The end product IS your forum, so any content hidden on your forum that requires payment means you need an extended license.
If the end users need to pay to see the end product, you need an extended license. There can be more than one end user as long as there is only one end product. Example: A website that requires money before you can access the content
You can sell other products FROM your forum, or place advertisements, but you can't restrict access to the forum itself (the end product).
@Anonymoose said:
Vanilla users are on this forum mostly, and don't care if you sell on ThemeForest or somewhere else, we are ready to buy from you, but not on ThemeForest's terms.
They are, but I only get traffic from this forum when I first announce the theme. After that initial promotion (which never yields very many sales anyway), I depend on month-to-month sales (which even now are pretty regular even though most of my themes have been out for years).
With my first kid on the way in September (yay!) and our desire for her to have one stay-at-home parent, even that little bit of extra income per month helps us out loads over the long run.
they are sold thru my new marketing agent @vrijvlinder.
you might say "Why did you choose vrijvlinder as your marketing agent for plugins?"
because I trust her, as I would trust her to sell my my first-born premium theme, if it was ever conceived and the theme would be aptly named "immaculate interception"
after this brief commercial interruption, we now take you back to the program you have been watching on the Vanilla channel...
Internet channel port 80 - the Beauty of the Nexus theme, which is now available...
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
@Anonymoose you are complaining that his business model doesn't fit yours, but you are far from the only show in town. Such is life.
For whatever reason this platform has some popularity, it might not be the only way and possibly a raw deal. But still for some it is there choice to sell on this platform, if as jspautsch says he is getting regular sales, then that is good for him, and it is hands free.
One of the myths of business is targeting the "mass market". This is a mythical sector which doesn't exist. You won't satisfy everyone, and you will often waste money trying. You target niches and possibly build on them.
Development is not cheap in time and money, so for a not a for profit you have to be creative in getting your resources.
@jspautsch said:
With my first kid on the way in September (yay!) and our desire for her to have one stay-at-home parent, even that little bit of extra income per month helps us out loads over the long run.
Isn't that interesting that the reason why I started selling software for Vanilla and WordPress was exactly the same?
@r0obert said:
Any ETA on the black/white variants of Nexus?
Good news: An update with both a white (Snow) and dark grey (Slate) theme has just been approved! Let me know what you think, you can preview the themes on the demo site: http://secondwindprojects.com/nexus
I have $14 in my envato account and I would love to purchase this theme but I have to pay envato another $20 or pay another $17 for it. You can't even apply credit as partial payment! Ridiculous!
@tomassiro said:
You can't even apply credit as partial payment! Ridiculous!
More than ridiculous, it's a clever trick from Envato to force people into spending even more money. They have one of the worst and greediest business models ever, they are at the top of my blacklist of bad companies.
@tomassiro said:
I mean, what? Why would you want to make it difficult for customers to purchase from your site.
It's not a matter of making it difficult, but more expensive. If you look at it from their perspective, it's very easy to buy something:
Use your balance.
Pay the whole amount using PayPal.
Either way, you are going to give them extra money, as PayPal payments attract a $2 fee, and the amount you can deposit rarely matches an item price. Cherry on top, the balance "expires" after one year, i.e. "use it or lose it".
Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. - tolstoy.
If I missed an unhappiness feel free to add.
solution: learn and build your own. then you can be unhappy or happy with yourself and not anyone else. At least you are in more control of your situation. Make time if its that important.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
Comments
Then sell a grey/white/enhanced/pro version directly.
ThemeForest may have a large userbase dedicated to themes, but as you noticed, that userbase is made up of non-vanilla users, so who cares about them.
Vanilla users are on this forum mostly, and don't care if you sell on ThemeForest or somewhere else, we are ready to buy from you, but not on ThemeForest's terms.
This license is really weird. Reading it, it looks like no lawyer ever read this over. People using themes to theme their websites are not usually selling what this license terms the end product, ie. the website. They sometimes do sell access to portions of the website, or put advertising on their site to earn money, but never is the actual website for sale.
In any case, the "sale" of the license has taken place already. I don't see anything barring a renegotiaion of the license itself, even if you are prohibited from selling it elsewhere.
So if someone breaches the license, they can still use your template, just that they can't make copies of it or distribute the website until it template it removed from the website. Funny.
seems pretty clear to me. jspautsch has a contract with themeforest which is his contract.
which has nothing to do with your contract as a purchaser. meaning you can only transfer your license to one person (a sale to someone else. you no longer have the license), unless you bought the extended license which means you can sell the end-product.
it actually protects jspautsch from people who want to sell his product and make money off his sweat., he actually does got a %age of extended license sales as I read into it.
I applaud jspautsch for selling a nice product. At least he gets some reimbursement for sweat. If he depended on donations, he might get lots of promises, but probably unfulfilled ones. or ones like I'll send you a $10 donation, after I make my first 100 million dollars.
I find it amusing, @anonymoose first you have an issue with lack of premium themes, than you have a problem with the price and the place that the user has decided to sell their product. What is an appropriate price @anonymoose for plugins and themes, and where should they sell it? so future developers will gain from you expertise in this matter.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
Except the website owner does not "sell" the end product, even if he allows people to access a website for a fee, that is not a "sale" of the product.
Actually, it does. ThemeForest defines the end product as what you build with the item you buy. So the theme is the item, and with the item you build your forum. Your forum is now the end product.
With that definition in mind, the licensing now makes sense, because if user need to pay to access your forum, they're paying to get the end product. The end product IS your forum, so any content hidden on your forum that requires payment means you need an extended license.
You can sell other products FROM your forum, or place advertisements, but you can't restrict access to the forum itself (the end product).
.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
They are, but I only get traffic from this forum when I first announce the theme. After that initial promotion (which never yields very many sales anyway), I depend on month-to-month sales (which even now are pretty regular even though most of my themes have been out for years).
With my first kid on the way in September (yay!) and our desire for her to have one stay-at-home parent, even that little bit of extra income per month helps us out loads over the long run.
A good product ruined by the business model/license chosen. Removing your template and moving on. Good luck.
wanna buy a plugin @Anonymoose. I have 30+ for sale for commercial use
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
Link please.
they are sold thru my new marketing agent @vrijvlinder.
you might say "Why did you choose vrijvlinder as your marketing agent for plugins?"
because I trust her, as I would trust her to sell my my first-born premium theme, if it was ever conceived and the theme would be aptly named "immaculate interception"
after this brief commercial interruption, we now take you back to the program you have been watching on the Vanilla channel...
Internet channel port 80 - the Beauty of the Nexus theme, which is now available...
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
@Anonymoose you are complaining that his business model doesn't fit yours, but you are far from the only show in town. Such is life.
For whatever reason this platform has some popularity, it might not be the only way and possibly a raw deal. But still for some it is there choice to sell on this platform, if as jspautsch says he is getting regular sales, then that is good for him, and it is hands free.
One of the myths of business is targeting the "mass market". This is a mythical sector which doesn't exist. You won't satisfy everyone, and you will often waste money trying. You target niches and possibly build on them.
Development is not cheap in time and money, so for a not a for profit you have to be creative in getting your resources.
grep is your friend.
Isn't that interesting that the reason why I started selling software for Vanilla and WordPress was exactly the same?
My shop | About Me
Let me add "even though many people believe the opposite, and consider good software a cheap commodity".
My shop | About Me
Good news: An update with both a white (Snow) and dark grey (Slate) theme has just been approved! Let me know what you think, you can preview the themes on the demo site: http://secondwindprojects.com/nexus
I have $14 in my envato account and I would love to purchase this theme but I have to pay envato another $20 or pay another $17 for it. You can't even apply credit as partial payment! Ridiculous!
More than ridiculous, it's a clever trick from Envato to force people into spending even more money. They have one of the worst and greediest business models ever, they are at the top of my blacklist of bad companies.
My shop | About Me
I mean, what? Why would you want to make it difficult for customers to purchase from your site.
It's not a matter of making it difficult, but more expensive. If you look at it from their perspective, it's very easy to buy something:
Either way, you are going to give them extra money, as PayPal payments attract a $2 fee, and the amount you can deposit rarely matches an item price. Cherry on top, the balance "expires" after one year, i.e. "use it or lose it".
My shop | About Me
I'm not pointing this at anyone ...
but from the comments over the past two years that I've seen relating to themes and add-ons.
I believe it boils down to you can't make everyone happy.
pick your own unhappiness.
Thought provoking link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle
Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. - tolstoy.
If I missed an unhappiness feel free to add.
solution: learn and build your own. then you can be unhappy or happy with yourself
and not anyone else. At least you are in more control of your situation. Make time if its that important.
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.