@whu606, I love discussions like this that go off topic. And I guess most threads that go off topic are okay in terms of the the people in the community (myself included).
I'm just wondering out loud if there's anything the software that can be done to manage this. I happen to know the chief product officer after all
I'm not sure I like thread splitting on its own so-so much. Maybe the resident community expert @Lincoln knows something.
I used to participate in a forum that was, run by nazi fascist moderators and they used to pick on everyone if they so much as veered a tiny bit off topic. Like if you said "hello everyone" that was considered chatting and was unacceptable....not sure I enjoy that kind of strict control. I try to not stray from topic but if everyone is going there who am I to object !
I think the hardest part of offering design services is estimating the actual cost of each project. That is were I usually short change myself
I see two ways of approaching quality off-topic. One is that it's a shame not everyone sees it and is directed to it. Two is that it's precisely the kind of hidden gem that creates a stronger community atmosphere, is its own reward for paying attention, and it doesn't need to be managed. I lean towards the latter; community is messy and that's ok.
since this discussion has now go off topic twice, i feel compelled to do one of the following
a) respond to each of the three topics i a single post.
or
b) submit a post which has little to do with any of the three possible topic areas, other than to reference them.
i suppose i went for b.
oh WTH. I might as well go off topic in my own post.
1) Few people that ask for developer support appear to genuinely interested in paying for development support. Offering $10 in exchange for 15hrs worth of code isn't payment. On the other hand, there have been people who stepped forward and paid a reasonable hourly rate for work. That said, if anyone is really serious (aka, dont waste time if you dont have $) about getting support, post your project specifications in a separate discussion and let the community submit quotes. -- and to the one or two folks that have done this and not gotten much response, i've seen a couple of requests for dev support on the boards. I chose not to respond to them generally because a) requirements were vague or the OP had unrealistic expectations. If someone posts a call for dev support on a friday, asking for a 40hr project to be completed by monday morning, they obviously dont understand the scope of what they are requesting and are very unlikely going to have the budget to pay me enough to make it worth my time to even comment on it.
2) Every Country has it's fair share of people who tell it like it is. The question is usually whether it's culturally acceptable to do so. I rarely shy away from telling someone the cold truth. But around here it's not considered politically correct. That said if I had a product in my shopping cart I no longer needed, I'd let the clerk know, I wouldn't just set it off to the side in the queue. that's just messed up man.
3) My forum is built on off topic discussion. We split useful thoughts into new discussions for the benefit of the casual visitors, but never discourage the utter derailment of a discussion. The way i look at it, each discussion is just that, a discussion. It's a group of people talking to each other, and where that conversation goes is entirely up to the people doing the talking (and often how much they have been drinking). Strict policies about content contributions being relevant to a given topic is appropriate for Wiki or Documentation type sites.That's why I support both forms of collaboration. My forum is effectively a bar, that people come in to to talk about beer, brewing and life. There are 145,000 posts on one discussion thread. That discussion has no topic, but it's the most frequently visited portion of my site.
@businessdad you're a genius i've read your blogs and it really shed a light for me in some aspects
@Lincoln > community is messy and that's ok.
the goal of having forums in the first place is to gather people and get them involved i dont see that as a problem to have some off-topics sometime
I see that you're both thoughtful people. I can tell you that, as someone in the market for your services, I'm NOT necessarily looking for the lowest price. I'm looking for a developer who can understand what I want (after I explain, it of course), who has the skill required and the motivation to get the job done properly and promptly, and who is willing to get it done for a reasonable price. Not a sweatshop price - I don't work in one and don't want you to either.
I've got a series of relatively simple improvements I'd like someone to make to my website (zohallt.com). I've done business with Peregrine in the past and have sent him a request to discuss this project too. But I'm not sure he'll want to tackle this project.
What I want is to restructure my site. Right now, my Vanilla 2 forum is embedded into my standard PHP web site. But I want it to be at the top level, and I want to add tabs to it that point to the rest of the site. As far as I know this involves messing with the controller, but I'm sure you know better than I do. I'd also like to change the login dialog, make the page wider, and a few other things. This is not a huge project for someone who knows Vanilla. But I'm always wanting to do things to the site and I could use help.
I'm not going to go to one of those cheap Asian outsourcers, unless I can't get at least one reasonable bid. Even then I might not go to one. I haven't so far.
What do say? Are you interested in discussing this? If so, please contact me privately.
@rstober thanks for asking , but I am still quite new here, I am good at making themes and fixing them, but I hardly qualify as a developer There is still much I need to learn...
@rstober Thanks for the interest, I will drop you a line later. I'm, more or less, the counterpart to @vrijvlinder: development is my field, but I'm not the best one with themes. You might need both of us.
Comments
@whu606, I love discussions like this that go off topic. And I guess most threads that go off topic are okay in terms of the the people in the community (myself included).
I'm just wondering out loud if there's anything the software that can be done to manage this. I happen to know the chief product officer after all
I'm not sure I like thread splitting on its own so-so much. Maybe the resident community expert @Lincoln knows something.
I used to participate in a forum that was, run by nazi fascist moderators and they used to pick on everyone if they so much as veered a tiny bit off topic. Like if you said "hello everyone" that was considered chatting and was unacceptable....not sure I enjoy that kind of strict control. I try to not stray from topic but if everyone is going there who am I to object !
I think the hardest part of offering design services is estimating the actual cost of each project. That is were I usually short change myself
❌ ✊ ♥. ¸. ••. ¸♥¸. ••. ¸♥ ✊ ❌
@Todd
For us, when needed, the Split/Merge FE plugin pretty much does all we could hope for in terms of hiving off off-topic posts.
I see two ways of approaching quality off-topic. One is that it's a shame not everyone sees it and is directed to it. Two is that it's precisely the kind of hidden gem that creates a stronger community atmosphere, is its own reward for paying attention, and it doesn't need to be managed. I lean towards the latter; community is messy and that's ok.
since this discussion has now go off topic twice, i feel compelled to do one of the following
a) respond to each of the three topics i a single post.
or
b) submit a post which has little to do with any of the three possible topic areas, other than to reference them.
i suppose i went for b.
oh WTH. I might as well go off topic in my own post.
1) Few people that ask for developer support appear to genuinely interested in paying for development support. Offering $10 in exchange for 15hrs worth of code isn't payment. On the other hand, there have been people who stepped forward and paid a reasonable hourly rate for work. That said, if anyone is really serious (aka, dont waste time if you dont have $) about getting support, post your project specifications in a separate discussion and let the community submit quotes. -- and to the one or two folks that have done this and not gotten much response, i've seen a couple of requests for dev support on the boards. I chose not to respond to them generally because a) requirements were vague or the OP had unrealistic expectations. If someone posts a call for dev support on a friday, asking for a 40hr project to be completed by monday morning, they obviously dont understand the scope of what they are requesting and are very unlikely going to have the budget to pay me enough to make it worth my time to even comment on it.
2) Every Country has it's fair share of people who tell it like it is. The question is usually whether it's culturally acceptable to do so. I rarely shy away from telling someone the cold truth. But around here it's not considered politically correct. That said if I had a product in my shopping cart I no longer needed, I'd let the clerk know, I wouldn't just set it off to the side in the queue. that's just messed up man.
3) My forum is built on off topic discussion. We split useful thoughts into new discussions for the benefit of the casual visitors, but never discourage the utter derailment of a discussion. The way i look at it, each discussion is just that, a discussion. It's a group of people talking to each other, and where that conversation goes is entirely up to the people doing the talking (and often how much they have been drinking). Strict policies about content contributions being relevant to a given topic is appropriate for Wiki or Documentation type sites.That's why I support both forms of collaboration. My forum is effectively a bar, that people come in to to talk about beer, brewing and life. There are 145,000 posts on one discussion thread. That discussion has no topic, but it's the most frequently visited portion of my site.
Vanilla Wiki, Tastes Great! 31,000 viewers can't be wrong. || Plugin Development Explained
@businessdad you're a genius i've read your blogs and it really shed a light for me in some aspects
@Lincoln > community is messy and that's ok.
i dont see that as a problem to have some off-topics sometime 
the goal of having forums in the first place is to gather people and get them involved
close
Hi businessdad and vrijvlinder,
I see that you're both thoughtful people. I can tell you that, as someone in the market for your services, I'm NOT necessarily looking for the lowest price. I'm looking for a developer who can understand what I want (after I explain, it of course), who has the skill required and the motivation to get the job done properly and promptly, and who is willing to get it done for a reasonable price. Not a sweatshop price - I don't work in one and don't want you to either.
I've got a series of relatively simple improvements I'd like someone to make to my website (zohallt.com). I've done business with Peregrine in the past and have sent him a request to discuss this project too. But I'm not sure he'll want to tackle this project.
What I want is to restructure my site. Right now, my Vanilla 2 forum is embedded into my standard PHP web site. But I want it to be at the top level, and I want to add tabs to it that point to the rest of the site. As far as I know this involves messing with the controller, but I'm sure you know better than I do. I'd also like to change the login dialog, make the page wider, and a few other things. This is not a huge project for someone who knows Vanilla. But I'm always wanting to do things to the site and I could use help.
I'm not going to go to one of those cheap Asian outsourcers, unless I can't get at least one reasonable bid. Even then I might not go to one. I haven't so far.
What do say? Are you interested in discussing this? If so, please contact me privately.
Thank you,
Robert
@rstober thanks for asking , but I am still quite new here, I am good at making themes and fixing them, but I hardly qualify as a developer
There is still much I need to learn...
❌ ✊ ♥. ¸. ••. ¸♥¸. ••. ¸♥ ✊ ❌
Thanks for the prompt response.
@rstober Thanks for the interest, I will drop you a line later. I'm, more or less, the counterpart to @vrijvlinder: development is my field, but I'm not the best one with themes. You might need both of us.
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