The ones that worried me were the spamming issue, and the theming/upgrading issue:
I didn't love the theming. It was hard for me to figure out what stuff was in what files, then when I did figure it out, you had to copy that entire file over to your theme and customize it there. That made it safe to upgrade, but also meant that upgrading didn't do anything because you are overriding any new changes.
There are numerous threads about spam and it seems to me as if there are some ways to fight it. The owner of css-tricks fled from phpbb because of spam and went to vanilla. Now he turns away from Vanilla (partly) because of spam. If that has been the only reason, it would have been no reason.
Vanilla is based on a MVC framework. If you work the right way, in your views there should be (nearly) no logic. If there is no logic, there is no need to update them. Only the underlying functions must change. That's what it's supposed to do. If you realize it in another way, every update destroys your changes completely. I prefer the Vanilla way, but that's just a matter of taste
Yes, the community is painfully small (and I'm missing a "warmer tone" sometimes) but most questions get answered. It's sad that the guy from css-tricks made another experience
Having only one software to look at is very appealing and that alone would be reason enough to change the software.
Actually, one of the reasons -- which may have been wrong-headed -- that I turned to Vanilla, was that I wanted to disaggregate our forum from our site. My reason for wanting to do that was a sense that the forum, which is massive, was weighing down our wordpress site. Now, however, I think the problem may have simply been that SimplePress is really really clunky. I'm in the process of testing out bbPress with my content, just to see how the site performs with all that data still in side the wordpress db. One thing I can say so far is that the importer experience is much better than with Vanilla. It's just working, no bugs so far.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the validity of my reason for disagregating the forum and the wordpress site. Was this based on a/man false assumption(s)?
@fraxture: I have seen your question after my post so I like to say something more to the update argument.
If you find an error the way data is fetched from the database, you change the model, if there is a security issue with the routing, controller has to be changed, but the view, that is how your forum looks like, could be completely designed by yourself. So if any security issues get fixed, you do not have to fix your theme. that's a plus for Vanilla.
But if you like to participate from all the shiny new features of a new version, you have to change your views. That's a minus for Vanilla.
To my understanding, if you have tweaked the look of your forum, you would have to tweak it again if a new version with new features (and most probably a new look) is released and so the negative point doesn't weigh too heavy...
I am no db expert, but I assume the difference between running the forum tables on the same db as your cms vs running the tables on a separate db would be negligible.
If you are looking for a good cms and a good forum, in my experience they will invariably have to be run on different software.
@hgtonight, I may not have understood what you are saying correctly, but your first and second points seem to contradict. If there is no negligible difference, then why should a cms and a forum need to be run on different software? What's throwing me for a loop here is that the css-tricks guy would opt for bbPress, which works as a plugin and claims to be quite fast.
I personally like ProcessWire as CMS and FluxBB as bulletin board, but none of them has such a mighty and easy to extend framework as Vanilla has. And that's what matters to me: I must be able to extend the software I'm using for myself. If I depend on a broad support from others because I cannot make changes to a complicated piece of software, I'd look for that.
What CMS and what forum software you choose is completely up to what you need. I do not want to need help, I prefer to have power and that's why I'm convinced that Vanilla is a great choice for anyone who is willing to code instead of asking and waiting for answers
as you say, Vanilla is brilliant if you are a Ninja Coder, but at the same time, it is simple enough for 'happy hackers' such as myself, who are prepared to have a bit of a go (and wait for help when we need it) to end up with pretty much what they want, without knowing too much about coding or css.
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The ones that worried me were the spamming issue, and the theming/upgrading issue:
Is this true?
Great responses @R_J
Actually, one of the reasons -- which may have been wrong-headed -- that I turned to Vanilla, was that I wanted to disaggregate our forum from our site. My reason for wanting to do that was a sense that the forum, which is massive, was weighing down our wordpress site. Now, however, I think the problem may have simply been that SimplePress is really really clunky. I'm in the process of testing out bbPress with my content, just to see how the site performs with all that data still in side the wordpress db. One thing I can say so far is that the importer experience is much better than with Vanilla. It's just working, no bugs so far.
Does anyone have any thoughts on the validity of my reason for disagregating the forum and the wordpress site. Was this based on a/man false assumption(s)?
@fraxture: I have seen your question after my post so I like to say something more to the update argument.
If you find an error the way data is fetched from the database, you change the model, if there is a security issue with the routing, controller has to be changed, but the view, that is how your forum looks like, could be completely designed by yourself. So if any security issues get fixed, you do not have to fix your theme. that's a plus for Vanilla.
But if you like to participate from all the shiny new features of a new version, you have to change your views. That's a minus for Vanilla.
To my understanding, if you have tweaked the look of your forum, you would have to tweak it again if a new version with new features (and most probably a new look) is released and so the negative point doesn't weigh too heavy...
custom css goes in custom.css and you can register additional style sheets.
it is simply false that you have to copy the "entire theme" whatever the means. A minimum theme can have two files and design folder.
Vanilla does not do file management for you, but you really shouldn't assign you file management to a web application anyway.
grep is your friend.
I am no db expert, but I assume the difference between running the forum tables on the same db as your cms vs running the tables on a separate db would be negligible.
If you are looking for a good cms and a good forum, in my experience they will invariably have to be run on different software.
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Sorry?
Someone who runs a site called CSS-Tricks couldn't get the hang of theming in Vanilla?
Seriously?
@hgtonight, I may not have understood what you are saying correctly, but your first and second points seem to contradict. If there is no negligible difference, then why should a cms and a forum need to be run on different software? What's throwing me for a loop here is that the css-tricks guy would opt for bbPress, which works as a plugin and claims to be quite fast.
That was a little confusing. Sorry.
The first point is about databases. The second is about software and frameworks.
The best cms does not run on garden. Garden is the framework the best forum software runs on. (Hint: It starts with V and ends with nilla).
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Check out the Documentation! We are always looking for new content and pull requests.
Click on insightful, awesome, and funny reactions to thank community volunteers for their valuable posts.
I personally like ProcessWire as CMS and FluxBB as bulletin board, but none of them has such a mighty and easy to extend framework as Vanilla has. And that's what matters to me: I must be able to extend the software I'm using for myself. If I depend on a broad support from others because I cannot make changes to a complicated piece of software, I'd look for that.
What CMS and what forum software you choose is completely up to what you need. I do not want to need help, I prefer to have power and that's why I'm convinced that Vanilla is a great choice for anyone who is willing to code instead of asking and waiting for answers
@R_J
Just as an addendum;
as you say, Vanilla is brilliant if you are a Ninja Coder, but at the same time, it is simple enough for 'happy hackers' such as myself, who are prepared to have a bit of a go (and wait for help when we need it) to end up with pretty much what they want, without knowing too much about coding or css.