@Srggamer said:
What do you mean Avoid Internet explore?
< rantagainstinternetexplorer >
I would even go to say stay away fro windows PC , most if not all of the hacking targets PC structure. Most come in the way of an executable file hidden in some non descriptor file. It could be masking as an audio or video file.
Internet Explorer is the most ridiculously unsafe browser, not to mention the styling issues etc.
I clearly state that we do not support IE. If you can't see the site or somethings don't work use a real browser.
One would think it would have been fixed by now, I think they know most people will not use it anyway so they don't bother.
Anything that can run in IE will run on any real browser. It is a microsoft ploy to make people put on their forms etc that it requires Internet Explorer . Nothing requires Internet Explorer except a virus. You should not either.
< /rantagainstinternetexplorer >
@vrijvlinder said:
Anything that can run in IE will run on any real browser. It is a microsoft ploy to make people put on their forms etc that it requires Internet Explorer . Nothing requires Internet Explorer except a virus. You should not either.
As a huge open source advocate (and staunch supporter of Firefox), I respectfully disagree.
The latest versions of IE (which is the only version of IE you should be running) are as safe as the other big alternatives (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera). The biggest security issue IE has these days is supporting antiquated ActiveX controls. Most users are programmed to click run on those prompts when the site doesn't work without it.
Plenty of existing enterprise software still relies on ActiveX controls. It sucks, but that is the way the world works.
I always found it perplexing that some people like Opera and hate IE. Given it is was based on the same engine.
When Opera started it had many of the same problem as IE and some pretty wacky stuff on top. I remember one weird blinking graphical error, which was presumably caused by a floating point issue.
I try and temper my contempt for Microsoft, these days. Given they are just one of many, they are not necessarily better or worse than the others. Also we have seen how how blind adherence standard done badly, can actually impede progress.
Personally I have very little involvement with Microsoft products, other than the testing stages, it s not something I care about enough to criticize it.
What vrijvlinder is referring to is the "locked in" days. Those day are long gone, ok there are still remnant of it, but the strategy was an abject failure. It ending up hurting Microsoft the most.
That was the bad old days of "board room in to court room" Microsoft.
People seem to like Google, but there have been times when the company have raised concerns, in a similar way to how Microsoft did. I think the problem is there are various influences in the company not all of them positive.
@x00 said:
I always found it perplexing that some people like Opera and hate IE. Given it is was based on the same engine.
That's not true. Opera uses Presto; IE uses Trident. As far as I know they have no common ancestor.
@x00 said:
When Opera started it had many of the same problem as IE and some pretty wacky stuff on top. I remember one weird blinking graphical error, which was presumably caused by a floating point issue.
But Opera ended up leading the browser world in its implementation of new standards well ahead of Mozilla and Webkit, even. Its rendering engine really is a technically superior product.
That's not true. Opera uses Presto; IE uses Trident. As far as I know they have no common ancestor.
Ok I may have got confused, I thought that prior to presto, Opera was in the trident family. I was wrong it seems.
But Opera ended up leading the browser world in its implementation of new standards well ahead of Mozilla and Webkit, even. Its rendering engine really is a technically superior product.
My early experience of Opera, if may use the "joining the dots" analogy, is they were fairly good the dots (standards), but not always as good at joining them up.
Standard are all very well, but it is the unwritten stuff, the connection between dots, that is equally important. Logic should prevail over blind adherence.
I remember a lot of issue, relating to getting it working on Opera. Even with the IE usually some hacky workaround but it was possible, but on several occasion the opera solution would put other browsers out of whack. Workarounds were sometime not really possible. It was an either or. You either had a wrong presentation on Opera, or a wrong presentation on others. This problem is largely gone but I remember it being like that.
Aslo if standard weren't ever broken, we wouldn't have the story we have now. Standard need to be broken, enhanced and challenged from time to time, especially when things get stagnant.
Even Opera knows that, there are plenty of opera specific methods.
@Srggamer said:
Never thought people would started arguing over IE...
you've possibly heard the saying "Three things you should never discuss with ..."
politics, sex or religion or possibly politics, religion, money,
well know in this modern age there is a fourth IE
Soon enough all the fringe radio stations pandering to a certain group will have societal-divisive arguments aimed at putting a wedge between people. "to use or not use IE".
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
I occasionally hear good things about Opera as well as its built-in email client. The newest versions of Opera use a new layout engine called Blink, which is a fork of WebKit. Unfortunately, Safari for Windows has been discontinued, and I suppose that the Mac version works well.
The newest versions of Internet Explorer work well and pages that use new HTML, CSS, and JS features seem to render alright. I use both Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox, and they work well, too.
With any web browser, it's important to not click allow on all prompts asking to load up plugins in the web browser. There have been exploits with ActiveX, Java, and Flash, so only enable the plugins that you use.
I use Opera since version 3.5 from back in the 90s and it has always been the most innovative browser. I do not believe in the importance of rendering engines.
Opera had a MDI long before other browsers were marketing their "tabbed browser experience", they were the first with browser sessions and you could always do anything with keyboard shortcuts.
I was full of horror when I installed their newest product which is no longer based on Presto because the current version lacks all the great UI features that Opera used to have and only supports the basic features you can also find in any other browser. By now it is only a weak little brother of Chrome.
By the way: when looking at frameworks, the first thing I do is to look at their support forum to see if the developers believe enough in their own work to power their complete homepage with their creation or if they think implementing existing solutions would be less effort and use their framework only as a basic CMS (which to me is an indicator for its user friendlyness)
@R_J said: I do not believe in the importance of rendering engines.
I think the same too. When people talk about this stuff, I say: "Why do you care about Rendering Engines so much? As long as you can use a browser, that's what matters."
Nowadays, most of the popular web browsers have decent rendering engines that support the latest web standards. Not so long ago, it was difficult to get website designs to be compatible with a wide variety of web browsers.
Although I do not believe in the importance, I also can not believe that some of them weren't meant to be a joke. My girlfriend has an online shop which I helped tweaking a bit and I was astonished what IE made of sane looking css...
Comments
< rantagainstinternetexplorer >
I would even go to say stay away fro windows PC , most if not all of the hacking targets PC structure. Most come in the way of an executable file hidden in some non descriptor file. It could be masking as an audio or video file.
Internet Explorer is the most ridiculously unsafe browser, not to mention the styling issues etc.
I clearly state that we do not support IE. If you can't see the site or somethings don't work use a real browser.
One would think it would have been fixed by now, I think they know most people will not use it anyway so they don't bother.
Anything that can run in IE will run on any real browser. It is a microsoft ploy to make people put on their forms etc that it requires Internet Explorer . Nothing requires Internet Explorer except a virus. You should not either.
< /rantagainstinternetexplorer >
❌ ✊ ♥. ¸. ••. ¸♥¸. ••. ¸♥ ✊ ❌
As a huge open source advocate (and staunch supporter of Firefox), I respectfully disagree.
The latest versions of IE (which is the only version of IE you should be running) are as safe as the other big alternatives (Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera). The biggest security issue IE has these days is supporting antiquated ActiveX controls. Most users are programmed to click run on those prompts when the site doesn't work without it.
Plenty of existing enterprise software still relies on ActiveX controls. It sucks, but that is the way the world works.
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I always found it perplexing that some people like Opera and hate IE. Given it is was based on the same engine.
When Opera started it had many of the same problem as IE and some pretty wacky stuff on top. I remember one weird blinking graphical error, which was presumably caused by a floating point issue.
I try and temper my contempt for Microsoft, these days. Given they are just one of many, they are not necessarily better or worse than the others. Also we have seen how how blind adherence standard done badly, can actually impede progress.
Personally I have very little involvement with Microsoft products, other than the testing stages, it s not something I care about enough to criticize it.
What vrijvlinder is referring to is the "locked in" days. Those day are long gone, ok there are still remnant of it, but the strategy was an abject failure. It ending up hurting Microsoft the most.
That was the bad old days of "board room in to court room" Microsoft.
People seem to like Google, but there have been times when the company have raised concerns, in a similar way to how Microsoft did. I think the problem is there are various influences in the company not all of them positive.
grep is your friend.
That's not true. Opera uses Presto; IE uses Trident. As far as I know they have no common ancestor.
But Opera ended up leading the browser world in its implementation of new standards well ahead of Mozilla and Webkit, even. Its rendering engine really is a technically superior product.
Ok I may have got confused, I thought that prior to presto, Opera was in the trident family. I was wrong it seems.
My early experience of Opera, if may use the "joining the dots" analogy, is they were fairly good the dots (standards), but not always as good at joining them up.
Standard are all very well, but it is the unwritten stuff, the connection between dots, that is equally important. Logic should prevail over blind adherence.
I remember a lot of issue, relating to getting it working on Opera. Even with the IE usually some hacky workaround but it was possible, but on several occasion the opera solution would put other browsers out of whack. Workarounds were sometime not really possible. It was an either or. You either had a wrong presentation on Opera, or a wrong presentation on others. This problem is largely gone but I remember it being like that.
Aslo if standard weren't ever broken, we wouldn't have the story we have now. Standard need to be broken, enhanced and challenged from time to time, especially when things get stagnant.
Even Opera knows that, there are plenty of opera specific methods.
grep is your friend.
Never thought people would start arguing over IE...
you've possibly heard the saying "Three things you should never discuss with ..."
politics, sex or religion or possibly politics, religion, money,
well know in this modern age there is a fourth IE
Soon enough all the fringe radio stations pandering to a certain group will have societal-divisive arguments aimed at putting a wedge between people. "to use or not use IE".
I may not provide the completed solution you might desire, but I do try to provide honest suggestions to help you solve your issue.
@peregrine We should send this Forum post to Microsoft see there reaction
I occasionally hear good things about Opera as well as its built-in email client. The newest versions of Opera use a new layout engine called Blink, which is a fork of WebKit. Unfortunately, Safari for Windows has been discontinued, and I suppose that the Mac version works well.
The newest versions of Internet Explorer work well and pages that use new HTML, CSS, and JS features seem to render alright. I use both Google Chrome and Mozilla Firefox, and they work well, too.
With any web browser, it's important to not click allow on all prompts asking to load up plugins in the web browser. There have been exploits with ActiveX, Java, and Flash, so only enable the plugins that you use.
Add Pages to Vanilla with the Basic Pages app
I use Opera since version 3.5 from back in the 90s and it has always been the most innovative browser. I do not believe in the importance of rendering engines.
Opera had a MDI long before other browsers were marketing their "tabbed browser experience", they were the first with browser sessions and you could always do anything with keyboard shortcuts.
I was full of horror when I installed their newest product which is no longer based on Presto because the current version lacks all the great UI features that Opera used to have and only supports the basic features you can also find in any other browser. By now it is only a weak little brother of Chrome.
By the way: when looking at frameworks, the first thing I do is to look at their support forum to see if the developers believe enough in their own work to power their complete homepage with their creation or if they think implementing existing solutions would be less effort and use their framework only as a basic CMS (which to me is an indicator for its user friendlyness)
I think the same too. When people talk about this stuff, I say: "Why do you care about Rendering Engines so much? As long as you can use a browser, that's what matters."
Nowadays, most of the popular web browsers have decent rendering engines that support the latest web standards. Not so long ago, it was difficult to get website designs to be compatible with a wide variety of web browsers.
Add Pages to Vanilla with the Basic Pages app
Although I do not believe in the importance, I also can not believe that some of them weren't meant to be a joke. My girlfriend has an online shop which I helped tweaking a bit and I was astonished what IE made of sane looking css...
PS: All of Vanilla's websites are built entirely from Vanilla.