Apple to have something very big in their sleeve?

Minisweeper

there isnt a refresh rate on lcd's. It doesnt refresh it just changes what's necessary. It's the response time that's important. i guess the resolution thing could be an issue but anything at what's not its normal resolution looks a bit stupid anyway. The trinitrons are nice, but the dell lcd's are damn sexy. I want a pair of the new 24" ones.

nathan

I want the Quad. Gimmie Gimmie Gimmie. I actually have no use for it, so it would just be bragging rights and calculating Pi to millions of decimal places for me. (I have it to 4 million. Took my dual 2.5 a day for two :P See what happens when I get bored!)

lech

The next question for me is: when the hell is jobs going to drop the announcement that osx will run on all pentiums? that would be the best announcement I could ever hear come directly from apple and I would be the happiest mofo ever.

Kosmo

Jobs has stated that Apple will not port Mac OS to PC platforms.

lech

I know, but it would be nice if I could just order "apple certified" intel parts to build up my own mac cheaply based on the next intel cpu's and have it rival any pc I have here. If Jobs fueled that kind of market switch, you would see a ton of people abandoning the windows platform for a mac system. I would estimate that at least half the people on a windows machine would do it. I would.

Kosmo

But the core idea behind Macs is just that the whole package is done by Apple designed and tested to work like a clock. If they made Mac OS for PC or would make Macs DIY it would destroy the whole founding idea rendering the whole universe obsolete.

Evios

lech, your estimation of half is off I believe. For half of user population to switch, you're including business. Businesses running on PCs with special in house software developed to only work with PCs will never switch. They can't afford to have the software rebuilt. Along with that, there are simply too many people who don't want to change. They will upgrade their windows, but to learn a whole new operating system is not something they want to put their time or money into doing. You're also grouping gamers in there, and as of right now, the apple gamers are far and few in between. I think a good number of people would get a second system, one apple and still retain their PC for other stuff. I think the overall percentage of people who would actually completely drop windows for a mac is more like 5-10% of the population and that may be an overestimate. Most people who don't want to use windows... don't. they install *nix.

lech

But the core idea behind Macs is just that the whole package is done by Apple designed and tested to work like a clock. If they made Mac OS for PC or would make Macs DIY it would destroy the whole founding idea rendering the whole universe obsolete.

But I like rendering the universe obsolete...

Anyway, you would be suprised at how many woes I have heard from people stuck with upgrading from previous windows to XP... All pretty much complaining that they would probably switch to Macs if things weren't so retarded with MS. And you would also be suprised at how many gamers these days actually run under macs.

To be quite honest, as much as I like apples design sense, the fact that the only god damn color is white or chrome really limits any choice you have. Which is why I would LOVE it if they just shipped the hardware to mount in a case of my own. Apple, I'm sure is seeing the whole 5-10% thing as well, but I'm sure if they tried, tons of people would buy up their hardware if it were super-cheap. The mac mini caused their revenue to spike for 2 months. Dropping some DIY hardware packages into the market could prove another spike if it was cheap and freely available.

Ask yourself this: what geek out there wouldn't drop cold cash for cheap hardware they could run an alternate OS on? Even if it was just to mess around with, I don't know anyone out there personally that goes all out and grabs the tech support and extended warranty and pays to have a prebuilt computer. Half the cost of PC's from OEM's are mostly due to bullshit install/setup + assembly cost. If you break the parts down to how much they cost individually at retail cost and assemble it yourself, you'll laugh. This is why PC's sell, So if Apple dropped DIY kits for the masses, everyone could help advance the mac further instead of them catering to just those people who can afford one :P

Kosmo

I made two computers. Apple Quad 2.5GHz 2 x 2.5GHz dual-core PPC G5 1024MB 533MHz DDR2 250G HDD nVidia Quadro FX 4500 512MB Pci-E 2 x 20" Apple Cinema Display cost. $7,006.00 Dell Precision WorkStation 670 2 x 2.8GHz Intel Xeon dual-core cpu 1024MB 400MHz DDR2 250G HDD nVidia Quadro FX 4400512MB Pci-E 2 x Dell 2005FPW 20" widescreen display, uses the same panel as the ACD 20" cost. $9,354.96 Dells price is insane and that is with cheaper displays and cheaper GPU, just to make a point that Apple hardware isn't always more expensive. I used the Xenon processors because I tought Dell was having an advantage with the cheaper parts. The iMac is harder to compare since it's not actually a normal computer, but I made a slightly similar system from Dell with the Dimension system and they actually come pretty close on price except the Dell had a normal 20" screen where as the iMac has a 20" widescreen and a dual layer Superdrive and Dell has a normal DVD burner. My brother got that Acer Ferrari laptop some time ago, and it cost about 2000€ about as much as the 15" PB. So all that alk about Apple being expensive is bullshit, it's just talk, maybe it was true some time ago, but you can't get pre-built system cheaper from a coumputer vendor, maybe then you could go cheaper if you bought that pieces separately and built the computer yourself cutting corners everywhere like ordering parts from cheaper countries like Finnish order parts usually from Germany. Apple's offerings just start high, they don't have those cheap-ass systems other vendors pack, but come on who the fuck would like to buy a 500 dollar computer anyway? Besides, Apple offers the Mini that sucks like all the computers in that price range. So the conclusion is that it's not the price that keeps people from buying Apple computers, it's just the fact that they don't want to (or rather, they don't NEED to buy Apple computers because they are mainly targetted at professionals, not home users).

Minisweeper

'who the fuck would like to buy a 500 dollar computer anyway?' - how about pretty much any business which needs an utter shit load of dumb terminals? Hardware goes out of date. Fast. You can buy hardware which is 6 months old much cheaper than the brand new stuff and in most cases you're really not missing out on much. On all pc parts there is a pricebreak where the value for money kicks in - e.g. hard drives reach a point where the cost per gig is cheapest and then it gets more expensive as you move onto the new bigger platters which havent had the benefit of enormous mass production yet. When i build pc's for myself or for money i pretty much always spec to the current price-breaks. Most people dont want shit hot systems - they have a budget in mind and perhaps a few ideas ('ooh i want one of those flat screen jobbies') and if you point out to them that buy buying at the pricebreak (either saving or costing them £50) they'll usually agree that it is a good move. If i suggested they spend an extra £X to buy themselves a mac they'd want a good reason - and lets be honest, most people dont even *realise* that windows pc's fill themselves with shit - and turn the idea down. If i could spec them up one for a similar cost to the pc they might start to consider it a viable alternative. Whether macs are aimed at the high end market or not, theyre still missing out on a huge market by doing so. And as for businesses, i'd say that theyre aimed at *design* businesses which benefit from their advantages. For the majority of businesses out there pc's are still the way to go and i dont see apple doing jack shit about that. To be honest, i believe apple *could* take over the market if they really put their minds to it. But they dont want to.

Kosmo

I agree and disagree with something you said, naturally. I myself am an animal most might consider the best target, I'm a gaming enthusiast which means that I spend hundreds of euros in bleeding edge technology, I usually upgrade my computer one a year with major upgrade and memory/hdd ugrades sprinkled across a year. AND I'm working and my hobbies are on the design industry so everything that makes my computer faster is easy sell for me. That is the primary reason I have stayed with PCs, I can just open up the computer, jack in a new HDD or GPU when ever I need something and be done with it, and the customisation (I don't mean case modding, but hardware/software optimization) options on hardware and software side are a big plus. I use as much money to my computer and gear as my brothers use for their car in a year. And for your comment on Apple not doing jack shit about major businesses I heavity disagree, if you look the low end lineup like iBooks and MacMini they are doing more than enough, it's not often when you can buy as good laptop for $1000. The only minus I'm seeing in Apple is that they don't offer smaller more affordable monitors. And like you said, Windows PCs filesystem is from hell, they fill them with crap, are security hazards and virus magnets, plus piracy is just out of control and so on. Many reasons why people should use Macs if they don't know their way around computers OR don't have the time to screw around with them. Macs ARE a valid choise when it comes to PC vs. Macs, people just don't realize it, and I don't see how the price could be an issue, they are not one bit too expensive compared to PCs.

Krak

I buy $500 computers. Well $500 in parts anyways. Bleeding tech is useless unless it makes think your better than everyone else and you like to spends lots of $$$ on soon to be obsolete hardware. New mobo/chip, new HDD, maybe some more RAM. Thats it, all that is required for an upgrade. Its not bleeding edge, and it doesnt have to be. Can be done with $500 or less and you will get a decent system that will last for at least 2 years. Most people don't have the cash to shell out $1k every 6 months on new shit. And...they shouldnt have too. --- Why are half the posts made in the past week turning into a Mac vs Windows vs Linux flamefest (be it the nicest flamefest I've ever seen, but a flamefest none the less)?

Kosmo

I wouldn't call this a flamefest, more like debates, people in Vanilla are way too smart to attack eachother over something like this. But buying 500€/$ worth of parts and actually buying a working computer with 500€/$ are two completely different things. And when you buy a computer using less money, that lasts for 2 years, my computer will still kick ass after 2 years, it's a lesson I learned long time ago, if you are buying a computer, you shouldn't be cheap, you are only hurting yourself with that. But one more thing I could say to Apples advantage is just that many still use the second generation iMacs with the weird stand and the LCD display on the neck, and they still are quite good, Macs tend to get older slower thatn PCs, it's either because the OS is built better, the compouters are build future in mind or they just have less upgrades. Sure they update the OS around every year, but that is the most essential part and should be updated maybe even more frequently (tho Apple makes you pay for the OS which is something I don't like one bit at all, OS imho should be free).

FLC

I love the G4 2nd Gen iMacs... Much more accessable than the current fixed stand

3stripe

Ok, well I'm hoping to ditch my PC laptop for a Mac desktop next year.... what should I aim to buy (its for making graphics + music mostly) A miniMac... an iMac or a G5... hmmmm..... looks like a G5 will probs cost to pushing £1,000 more than the other two once you've added in the extras

Kosmo

I'd definedly go for iMac, PowerMacs are targetted heavily to the heavy duty designers that can shell around 2,500€ minimum for a workstation. Mini is bit short on resource heavy software.

Minisweeper

Apologies if parts of my post wernt thoroughly thought through but i was dashing out to work. I will admit the mac mini was a fantastic addition to their product line for a cheap starter and if i were to invest in a mac that would probably be the one but it'd still be a big decision. If i could buy parts to my liking (or even install the os on my pc) i know the decision would be a lot easier. And when i bitched about their business department, i was talking more about the OS than the hardware. I will admit i havent looked into apples OS's much but i certainly havent seen anyone shout about the use of macs as servers or network terminals?

Krak

I dont have luxury to shell out hundreds of dollars every six months on hardware. Bills, rent, cars, and a kid come first. I only get to upgrade one or two items like every other year. Last time it was my video card, before that sound card. Now its the motherboard/cpu, and Im gonna squeeze in a HDD if I can. And RAM if I push it. And one of the main reasons Macs have better stability..etc.. that is what you get when you pay a few grand for it, and the OS and hardware are made by the same people. If MS made their own computers, I am sure there would be far less problems there as well. Ok maybe not, lol, but I'd like to think that way.

3stripe

Yeah I thought an iMac might do the job... maybe by next year they'll come with a TV card built in as well and I can get rid of the tv :-D

Ben

I would buy a amazingly fast and shiny G5 powerhouse, but I just don't have the money.