The official I hate PCs discussion

giginger

Dinoboff: Sadly, it's not available now. It was called GIS Navigator. I forget the version number.

dan39

Honestly, you guys need to learn more about OS X before you write it off. Two things: A) You can disable the .DS_Store files by following the simple instructions in the following document: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301711 B) There are 3 popular CAD programs for OS X: http://apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/domuscad.html http://apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/digicad3d.html http://apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/powercadd.html Here's how one design firm uses PowerCADD for their work: http://apple.com/business/profiles/kaa/index2.html The article goes on to say: "And both PowerCADD and AutoCAD speak the same language, so sharing files with consultants who are using AutoCAD is seamless."

giginger

Just in case you missed it before: I do so prefer your posts dan. Much more reasoned and actually informational instead of petty name calling and bereft of colloquialism. I salute you. ====== Now you've given me actual links to CAD programs I can take OSX more seriously as a platform for switching. Wanderer take note: Dans posts are perfect examples of how to inform people of the abilities of an OS. In just two posts he's given me exceptionally more information on OSX than you have. He's also not tried to force his opinions on me. In fact, I'm assuming he's a Mac user as I don't remember them stating they are.

dan39

I am a Mac user. I used to be a MS Windows fan. But, once Apple decided to throw out their original OS and rebuild everything from the ground up on a UNIX foundation and slapped on lots of Open Source, Open Standards, plus Windows compatibility, I realized that Apple was a company that was willing to take significant risks to be better and do the right thing. Microsoft seemed to be just refreshing the UI year after year. I grew tired of the same old song and dance from Microsoft. Apple was innovating at a much faster rate. And I prefer to have access to newer technology than to wait for Microsoft to copy it. That's when I switched. If you think about it, the structure of MS Windows/DOS wasn't really created for the internet. It's a bit like trying to float a boat that's made out of a mesh screen. But, Apple switched to Unix so that it could be more secure on the Internet and be powerful enough to do anything and stable enough for everyone. So many people think that OS X is all about looks. But, the looks (while superb) are really the tip of the ice berg. More recently Apple divulged that ever since OS X was introduced they have had a top-secret department that's sole purpose was to shadow OS X PowerPC development on Intel processors. There were a significant number of Apple employees that had no idea that this department ever existed. Because of that initiative (which was started years ago), Apple was able to figure out a way to seamlessly migrate OS X to Intel processors -- to the extent that the average user had no idea the switch ever even happened. A migration like that takes a lot of smart planning and the ability to take a hard look in the mirror and take huge risks to make things even better. And the ability for a company to do that, on that level, makes them much more nimble and innovative than their competition. I've been a Mac user for about 7 years now, and I am constantly amazed at what OS X can do. It seems like every week I uncover more features that weren't instantly apparent to me. I'll admit that it's not easy to make the switch. You have to be willing to take your own risks, and throw everything you know about UIs out the window. Macs have their own idiosyncrasies that don't make sense. But, I find that Apple takes significant steps to rethink their approaches, and is willing to make things better for their users. In general, I've found that people who switch hate their Macs for about 2 weeks. But, after that, they can't believe they ever used a PC, and vow to never go back. (Some people say it's a bit like swithching from briefs to boxers -- takes some getting used to, but well worth it). BTW, here are a few other CAD programs for OS X: http://apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/doodlecad.html http://apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/cadintosh.html http://apple.com/downloads/macosx/imaging_3d/realcadd.html

Wanderer

 Quote: giginger  Wanderer take note: Dans posts are perfect examples of how to inform people of the abilities of an OS. In just two posts he's given me exceptionally more information on OSX than you have.
Yes, dan39 did a great job, he's very knowledgeable, he takes the time do research and find facts and I notice he shut you up dead in your tracks, which points out how unreasonable and uninformed your comments are.

OK so you liked what dan39 said but not what I said which amounted to basically the same thing in the end. If spoon-feeding is what you want from me, you're dreaming mate.

Cry, sook, cry, my fave app is not available natively so I'll stamp my feet and tell the world how bad OSX is 'cos I don't get what I want spoon-fed to me.

Eh, what? My fave app is available natively? Oh alrighty then I'll wipe my nose and "...take OSX more seriously as a platform for switching..."

Pl-eeze, grow up.

Posted: Thursday, 1 February 2007 at 12:02PM (AEDT)

giginger

I notice he shut you up dead in your tracks

Care to explain that sentence? It doesn't point out a thing about my comments. It points how much you're grasping at straws to try and make me look bad.

If spoon-feeding is what you want from me, you're dreaming mate.

If you want people to switch to Mac then you have to work for it.

Cry, sook, cry, my fave app is not available natively so I'll stamp my feet and tell the world how bad OSX is 'cos I don't get what I want spoon-fed to me.

Once again you're making crap up. I didn't say OSX was bad because it doesn't support my app. I said it wasn't for me. For a grammar Nazi you have poor reading skills. The thing is, Autodesk Map 3D is far from being my favourite app. It's an essential app for me to do my job but that doesn't make it my favourite.

Eh, what? My fave app is available natively? Oh alrighty then I'll wipe my nose and "...take OSX more seriously as a platform for switching..."

Well of course I'd take it more seriously when someone shows me a viable alternative! I'm not an idiot. Contrary to what you think and how you're determined to show me.

Pl-eeze, grow up.

Hmmmmm, this is coming from you? The most immature person I have ever encountered? You go out of you way to say things like "I'm back to teaching 3 gorgeous girls all about Illustrator, and they're paying for lunch!" as if it asserts the power of a Mac. All it shows is that you're a shallow individual. I don't see anyone else trying to come across as a suave individual because of their OS.

Seriously, read back your own posts. You've come across as an egotisitcal idiot who tries to twists other peoples words into meaning something completely different. Fortunately you're crap at it and everyone can see right through you.

No doubt you'll post some other utterly inane reply to this. I won't reply. I'm done with you. You're boring. I'll still post in this thread if people like Dan39 are posting. At least they're giving answers and information. All I'm seeing from you is personal attacks and that's something I just can't be bothered to deal with.

Call it PC Mentality if you like but I don't really care. I'm now going to reply to someone who has a mental agility above that of a glass of water.

-------------------------------------------------

dan: Do you have any experience with those CAD programs?

Microsoft seemed to be just refreshing the UI year after year.

Very true.

I'll admit that it's not easy to make the switch. You have to be willing to take your own risks, and throw everything you know about UIs out the window. Macs have their own idiosyncrasies that don't make sense. But, I find that Apple takes significant steps to rethink their approaches, and is willing to make things better for their users. In general, I've found that people who switch hate their Macs for about 2 weeks. But, after that, they can't believe they ever used a PC, and vow to never go back.

This is where I think I could have trouble. I've been using Windows since 3.1 and it's a daunting step to have to chuck all that knowledge away. I know when I had to work with a Mac I was getting constantly frustrated as I kept trying to do things the Windows way. It was OS9 though and, by all accounts, that was pretty dire. My experience with OS9 wasn't good. I detailed it somewhere on this board. Maybe this thread.
When you mention Mac idiosyncrasies what sort of things are you talking about. Could you give an example? I honestly am looking at getting a MacBook Pro soon. Those CAD links you've given will help me a lot, especially if I show at work that it's possible to do my work on a Mac. Then I might be able to get them to pay

dan39

Here's a perfect example of an idiosyncrasy that a lot of people find strange: http://daringfireball.net/misc/2005/04/tiger_details#widget-bar-doubleclick A lot of other people complain about the Control vs. Option (i.e. Apple) keys being different from PCs to Macs. However, this is easily remedied by doing the following: http://daringfireball.net/misc/2005/04/tiger_details#modify-modifiers I don't have any experience with CAD programs, but I recommend going into an Apple Store and asking if they have any workshops planned: http://www.apple.com/retail/workshops/ I would ask to speak to the manager if they say that they don't have any CAD workshops planned. Tell him/her you're thinking of switching but that you're hesitant and would love to see some CAD software in action. The Apple Stores are a good place to try out OS X too. In the meantime, I'll see if I can dig up any CAD tutorials/info.

giginger

I've bookmarked that site for later reading. Looks good. I've had a look and the Apple Store nearest me does workshops so I'll pop along there at some point and see if they can offer me advice on CAD programs. Last time I was there though it was hella busy. Although everyone was fiddling with iPods.

Krak

That email sounds/looks bogus.

Wanderer

 Quote: giginger  If you want people to switch to Mac then you have to work for it.
I wasn't going to waste any more of my time on you ginger, but...
Who said I wanted you to switch?
So you want me to work harder for you so you can switch to a Mac?
Do your own research, I'm already in the happy place.
As for those Mac idiosyncrasies you are asking about, again do your own bleeding research, and if it's all too hard then stay on your current platform of choice, sounds like you deserve each other. (If that's an insult, it ain't my fault.)

Posted: Thursday, 1 February 2007 at 1:37PM (AEDT)

dan39

What do you mean that email looks/sounds bogus? Jim Allchin's emails have been widely reported in the media http://www.informationweek.com/news/011107.jhtml http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/103108/microsoft-emails-reveal-tiger-envy.html http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.jhtml?articleId=197001811 http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=45037 Are you really in that much denial?? Jim Allchin even talks about the most publicized email on his own blog (though, much of it is damage control): http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2006/12/12/title.aspx And they're still subpoenaing emails, so there may be some more coming soon.

dan39

@giginger: Here is what I was looking for: http://www.apple.com/business/solutions/architecture.html (There's a lot of good info at this link). Apple also has some online seminars that you can watch to learn more about how to use OS X for architecture and CAD: http://seminars.apple.com/seminarsonline/appleandarch/apple/ http://seminars.apple.com/seminarsonline/architecture/apple/ http://seminars.apple.com/seminarsonline/dwg/apple/

y2kbg

"I'm back to teaching 3 gorgeous girls all about Illustrator, and they're paying for lunch!" as if it asserts the power of a Mac.

LMAO!!!

giginger

@dan39: I actually found the architecture one myself last night after you'd linked me up to the other CAD links. Thanks for the link anyway. Those seminar ones look good. Definitely give me more info there. I didn't find those ones last night. They're probably the most important ones. Thanks again.

bugsmi0

holy banana peels batman, this discussion is still going ? he he

well i hate pc and am proud to not have a bit of MSG (microsoftgoup) on my mac

here's one reason why pc sucks and mac's rock,

a used mac is almost as good as a brand new mac, need i say more ?
pc user owns several pcs in a lifetime, mac users only need one that will last for a lifetime

must i really go on ?

haven't you pc users taken enough beating ? he he

guys that own macs have more sex than guys who only pc

enough said now get back to fracken work

Minisweeper

Well that really was an excellent example of a completely pointless and utter bullshit argument. I doubt even wanderer could beat that!

y2kbg

"Well that really was an excellent example of a completely pointless and utter bullshit argument. I doubt even wanderer could beat that!"


but if he really tried.....

dan39

All of the Mac haters out there will appreciate this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html

silverwing

"a used mac is almost as good as a brand new mac, need i say more ?
pc user owns several pcs in a lifetime, mac users only need one that will last for a lifetime"

Not quite true.

I'm currently typing this on my old Grape iMac. I've had it 6 or seven years now and it's still going. However, it's at the end of it's OS life. (The latest OS I can get on it is OS10.2.) Many of the newer programs require 10.4. So I'm out of luck.

And not to mention how friggin slow it is.

So they can last a while, but you're got to sacrifice something with age.

(And my 5year old Dell died last month... not bad for a pc, really.)

~silverwing

EDIT: I got my 5year old Dell working now.

bjrn

All of the Mac haters out there will appreciate this article
I was wondering when someone was going to post that. You can see the UK Apple ads here.