The official I hate PCs discussion

Minisweeper

I dont refuse to hear and see. My next purchase may well be a mac. I was merely pointing out that XP offered similar functionality. Masses have come to expect mediocrity and few go looking for anything further until it smacks them in the face. Just look at millions of MySpace users when there are so many better platforms out there. Why not send apple on a massive switch campaign (stop pissing around advertising and go into the world and SHOW people how to use a mac and why they should switch). As ridiculously effective as advertising seems to be to all the propaganda fueled idiots out there the chances are they also dont like change. Why bother moving away from a mediocre pc if it involves learning something new.

Wanderer

I see Vanilla as being very Mac-like in its design and implementation, which is probably why I gravitated towards it immediately and zapped the phpBB forum off my server very shortly after.

As for building an OS to suit your needs, that's not what the masses do, nor is it something they could or want to do so it's not a viable argument. My world is full of PC drones bragging about the beauty they "built" out of crap PC parts then complaining about heat issues, sound cards not being compatible with this or that and other problems I refuse to use gray-matter to remember.

Right out of the box, OS X has no match!
Right out of the box, Mac hardware has no match!

NickE

As for building an OS to suit your needs, that's not what the masses do, nor is it something they could or want to do so it's not a viable argument
So, downloading a program and running the installer is too hard? I was talking about building up functionality, not the OS itself.

And a good deal (if not all) of the hardware apple uses isn't made by apple, the company just assembles them into a computer. If a PC is put together poorly it will have problems, but that is the fault of the PC builder.

Wanderer

 Quote: SirNot  So, downloading a program and running the installer is too hard? I was talking about building up functionality, not the OS itself.
That's my point exactly, no need to do it, no need to pay extra for it, no need to take the responsibility for keeping it updated, it's already there and done for you!

Elegant and functional right out of the box!

 Quote: SirNot  And a good deal (if not all) of the hardware apple uses isn't made by apple, the company just assembles them into a computer. If a PC is put together poorly it will have problems, but that is the fault of the PC builder
Yup, again my point, they make sure it's quality, compatible and it works!
The recent Sony battery problem is an excellent example, Sony bypassed Apple's technical standards and requirements, the batteries broke, Apple made them fix it!

NickE

So apple can put together quality computers, wow, so can hundreds of other computer companies. Alright, os x has some built-in functionality that windows dosn't, but that dosn't make it 'better' than windows. phpBB has something functionality built in that vanilla dosn't, does that make phpBB superior?

All this talk about about how 'it has no match', how it's 'better' and 'window sux' is all relative, and I still don't get why you don't seem to be grasping this. Apple may be a good, graphically-overstimulating OS, but it's not great for everyone. Many people use Windows or other operating systems because it suits them and their environment best (eg. not having to use only hardware which only apple sells). It's not about being 'better' than another OS, it's about how well it fits you and your situation.

Wanderer

 Quote: SirNot  ...it's about how well it fits you and your situation...
And again that is my point!

If you are happy to stay with the mediocre, the dull, the majority, the almost good enough, what you are used to... and so on, by all means stay.

If you want to express yourself, broaden your horizons, do something different, get creative, enjoy the computer experience, make an informed choice, grow, get excited, wake up...

Microsoft web site...


Apple web site...


You decide?

NickE

If you are happy to stay with the mediocre, the dull, the majority, the almost good enough, what you are used to... and so on, by all means stay.

If you want to express yourself, broaden your horizons, do something different, get creative, enjoy the computer experience, make an informed choice, grow, get excited, wake up...

'almost good enough'? You missed practically the whole point of my previous comment. If it's 'almost good enough', why use it? Use what's best for you. Hence, for my purposes, a mac would be 'almost good enough', while windows is 'just right'. 'informed choice'? You think I'm not using a mac because I loathe the name or something? I've used it before, I know what it's like, and I prefer windows. And you don't need to get all high and mighty about that, either. You know how you're not as in to programming as I am? Well, that's probably why you're version of 'expressing oneself' is different from mine, the same with 'get creative'. 'broaden your horizons'? Like I've said, I've already used it, I don't see how continuing to do such will 'broaden my horizons'. Lastly, I don't have any idea of how buying a mac will help me 'wake up', it'd probably depress me, if anything.

Your 'points' are all opinions. Based largely on graphical experience, by the look of it. Furthermore, you've managed to pick probably the most boring page of ms's site, not, like the apple sample, the main page.

MySchizoBuddy

btw what do guys think about how Adobe threaten to sue Microsoft if it added "Save to pdf" option in office 2007.
Microsoft cried for a while saying "*sob sob* hey Apple does it, how can't we do it *sob sob*"
Adobe is like "screw u biatch, u pay up else i'll sue ur tush"

end result no "save to pdf" in office 2007 by default. now u have to download a program from Office update site to get that option.
Adobe was wrong on this. So next time u don't see pdf support in Windows u know who to blame

PS : it didn't go exactly this way. but u get the gist of the story

Sirnot all MS pages are boring. specially their demos. its like they were made for the corporate world. even though they are perfect for the creative people as well. Buts always susan lady in the office who wants to do something.
look at the demo of Microsoft Expression Graphics Designer they could demoed anything yet they choose to make a boring Fabricam company HOMEPAGE. its GRAPHICS DESIGNER helooooooooooo. and they are using it to make a homepage of a company. what? which moron came up with that idea
If u want to compete with photoshop u better get ur tush in line.those websites and demos need to change to cater to the creative people. not corporate.

Wanderer

Wow, I'm chucking out Photoshop and Illustrator and getting Microsoft Expression Graphics Designer!

That demo convinced me... hmmm, now I need an Intel Mac so I can run Windows Vespa!

MySchizoBuddy

for the record Expression Graphics designer was a mac product. MS bought the company and made it windows only. even the Interactive designer came out from the same mac company that made expression designer. I use it sometime. It has some nice features that i find hard in photoshop to do. I'm not sure how well the graphics industry will like vector and bitmaps all in one. Canvas tried to do that and went under. Corel tried it with no luck as well. The pros don't want their raster and vectors in one. thats why photoshop and illustrator exist to cater to different markets. when MS first bought the company the demos did cater to the creative professionals. It showed the power of vector and raster all in one. now they replaced all of it with some corporate crap.

Stash

I understand why this thread exists, but I lament its existence. The really sad thing is that I agree with some of the things that you say about OSX (not the hardware, after all it's 90%+ PC now anyhow) Wanderer has said, it's just that the way he says them make him come across like a complete asshole. Wanderer, you're nearly enough to put people off buying a Mac, understand your excitement about Macs, I really do, (I've had it too!), but you really do come across as bigoted, smug, holier-than-thou and opinionated - just try toning it down a little and you would annoy me less for one.

MySchizoBuddy

thanks for the link. me like it

giginger

There's a good Bill Hicks gag about giving up smoking which can be used here Bill: "You know why I don't quit smoking? So I don't become one of you whiny holier than thou smug bastards. I've got a revelation for you, *drum roll* brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr non smokers are dying every day" That could be read as: "You know why I don't switch to Mac? So I don't become one of you whiny holier than thou smug bastards. I've got a revelation for you, *drum roll* brbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbrbr macs crash every day" Seriously, Macs aren't all that great. They're the smuggest cunting company I have ever seen. They're also fucking childish too. iPods get shipped out with a windows virus and apple retorts "Oh, that just proves that Windows is lame". No, it proves your quality assurance is crap. What a bad attitude to take. Sure, OSX looks nicer and has some fancy effects. Vista is trying to copy that and I wish it wasn't. Fuck fancy effects and graphics. I want something functional from a machine. My PC does that. It also allows me to do a lot more. Things are easier on a PC because of the wider choice (<em>CHOICE</em>) of software you have available. Roughly how much open source software runs on Mac? Fuck all compared to PC. I wish Mac users would get hte hell off of their high horse. If Macs were so damn good then we'd all be using them. The other things about Macs that annoys me is price. What sort of an arrogant company is low in the adoption stakes and keeps it's prices higher than the competition. If they want more people to get a Mac then lower your prices. Simple fucking economics.

yesahasureok

macs are great, the workflow of the OS is flawless and unbeatable.
the "fancy effects" are ergonomical helpers for a logical user guidance and for a flawless "look & feel".

other than that ... computers are only tools, no matter which kind of computers

NickE

Stash and giginger pretty much pointed out one of the main reasons why I'm shying away from macs...

MySchizoBuddy

ginger looks like u have some bad childhood memories thats traumatizing you. take deep long breaths. u should try to look at the car industry. its very interesting with different quality cars and price range and market segments. most of ur questions can easily be answered if u look at the car industry. try to take that question of lowering prices and apply it to BMW or Mercedes or Audi. There is such a thing called premium product and brand image. what will happen to the image of BMW if u got one at the same price as a corolla? will rich people still buy a BMW if they knew a clerk can afford one as well. just by lowering the price BMW can destroy its own market. ur making conflicting remarks. u state if macs are superior then everyone will buy it. yet everyone buys ipods but u don't seem to like that as well Look at Dell they lowered their prices which cut into their profits and now their stock is worth half as much. they are also having trouble with quality control and customer service. u have to keep a certain margin where ur able to provide good customer support. lower ur prices and u'll find urself in a big mess. Lowering prices doesn't mean u sell more. Its not simple economics its an idiots economics. we don't see unbranded computers sell more than a dell or hp. even though they are cheaper and have the same stuff as well there is hell lot more to product design and marketing than you understand. if u love opensource software u should run linux not windows.

Minisweeper

BMW probably dont need more people to buy their cars though. And BMW drivers dont want more people buying cars like theirs because it makes them less special. Gigingers point seems to be that mac users want/suggest everyone buys a mac...

MySchizoBuddy

Wanderer wants to do that. i don't. I refer people come and see my mac and go woooo that imac looks awesome. I hardly recommend anyone buy a mac unless they are already frustrated with a pc. if eveyone of my friends had an imac then my imac won't be cool anymore. lucky for me. none of my friends or family members own a mac. I'm the sole mac guy and it feel good.

NickE

Everyone buys ipods because they're so hyped up, not because they're great products (really, does the standard teenager go out and read reviews and user experiences about mp3 players before going out and buying one? no, (s)he'll buy what all her friends think is cool, and what was impressed upon her as cool about ten bajillion times by apple).

@schizobuddy: Wanderer seemed to have that general attitude, too. The 'it's cool because it's different' sort of thing.

Wanderer

I've heard all those "arguments" before people (yawn), they are all old and no longer relevant, like:

-- Things are easier on a PC because of the wider choice (CHOICE) of software you have available.

Well ALL OF IT runs on a Mac now, in case you missed it, ALL OF IT!

As for my "attitude" you take it as you like, this is a discussion, if you're not interested, don't read it.

And now for...
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Number 22 in the Series...
Macs, PCs and Me
Joe's Anecdote
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You know people I've been copping sh*t from PC users since 1985 when I bought my first Mac.

For years I've been doing the Mac evangelist thing with a fair amount of success but the die-hards simply closed their minds and spouted their "Macs are toys, too expensive, too snobbish, not real computers" arguments.

I ran an elementary school lab with 20 or so Macs for years, it ran like a dream, I had the kids do most of the maintenance and all went like clockwork with rarely a problem. After I left, my replacement convinced the school council to spend less money and buy twice as many "cheap" PCs.

Well it was a disaster, the poor chap had a mental breakdown by June of that year. The staff cursed him because the lab was down more than up, the kids cursed him because he password-protected everything and their favorite applications were gone, the school council got what they deserved because support costs escalated from zero to thousands of dollars every term (semester).

Did they learn their lesson? No of course not, they are still running PCs because "everybody else does" and they are now Microsoft drones blindly following like zombies.

Well I don't have to fight this battle on my own any more, in fact it's all but won!

If you need a PC to run a particular Windows application, a Mac can do it, in fact whatever you need to run a Mac can do it, better, faster, cheaper, more elegantly, more enjoyably and, wait for it, virus free!

In case you missed the point, a Mac can do it all and I guarantee you'll be spending more time in Mac OSX and less time in Windows CE, ME or NT, did you ever wonder why it spells CEMENT?