The official I hate PCs discussion

squirrel

I like my Mac. It's neat. I was a complete Mac virgin until about six months ago and I must admit the MacBook Pro has quite impressed me. The hardware is top notch. The software is good too. At least, I think it would be if I could run ANY GODDAMN THING on it. Maybe I'm just spoiled by the vast quantity of PC software out there, but trying to find the applications I want for MacOS X really makes me Hulk out. I was floored when I found out there isn't an Aqua build of OpenOffice.org. So my choice is between the twitchy X11 build or the third-party Aqua build that lags about six months behind. Yay, not. Even some of the most basic software is unbelievably difficult to find. Quick, name a free raster graphics app for Aqua that can do a bicubic (or even linear) resample! Or name an Aqua archiver that isn't a complete piece of garbage (read: not StuffIt)! And don't get me started on the charming OSX compulsion to spam ".DS_Store" and "Trashes" all over any network share or memory stick that it touches. I must say though that while the GUI makes me want to throw the whole mess against a wall, I do appreciate the hell out of the UNIX backend. DarwinPorts is an absolute joy to use and I easily set up a nicely featured Apache server for offline web development. But damn! the fugging GUI! If I were Apple I would be working a lot harder to tempt developers into Mac-ifying some of the high profile Windows apps out there.

Wanderer

Hey squirrel.
So why not simply install Windows on the thing and live in perpetual ecstasy?

Posted: Monday, 29 January 2007 at 4:44PM (AEDT)

squirrel

Ahh yes, the cunning If-you-love-Windows-so-much-why-don't-you-marry-it defense.

Wanderer

The point is mate, when you make a change like this you need to embrace it, look for the positives (and there are many) and find new solutions and experiences.

When I made the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X I too thought it was the end of the world when many of my "can't do without" applications were not updated to work with OS X.

But I survived, not only did I find alternatives but they were much better than I could have dreamed about. OS 9 is now but a memory long in the past.

Posted: Monday, 29 January 2007 at 5:25PM (AEDT)

adrian.

"And don't get me started on the charming OSX compulsion to spam ".DS_Store" and "Trashes" all over any network share or memory stick that it touches."

There is a program called OnyX that allows you to perform a lot of maintenance tasks and alter a lot of hidden settings. One of which is to stop OSX from creating crap on windows network shares.

Hope this helps

@DICKNOSE,

Sounds like you're describing yourself there.

Ever thought about just shutting up and using your Mac? I don't know, it seems more sensible than trying to convert people that don't want to or that don't need to be converted. I use my Mac to run my business, I spend about 0 seconds a day telling people how good a mac is, unless they ask of course. Because then I'll calmly point out what I see he advantages of OSX to be.

You do realise that Leopard is going to be disappointing if you're expecting a whole new OS, its been caught up in the same rumour mill as all other apple products have since the advent of the iPod. Some of its features will make things easier, but its hardly gonna change the way you use a computer is it??

Wanderer

 Quote: adrian.  @DICKNOSE, Sounds like you're describing yourself there.
We both know that was hidden (white) text in your own post Mr Palmer.

More...  You do realise that Leopard is going to be disappointing if you're expecting a whole new OS
I know exactly what I'm expecting mate, never been disappointed yet.

Posted: Monday, 29 January 2007 at 6:22PM (AEDT)

adrian.

oh god, you did just link to my post, refer to me as Mr Palmer for some unknown reason and fail to address the why don't you just shutup and use your mac comment.

please tell us, Mr NOSE, why can't you just shut up and use your Mac?

Minisweeper

Is there a reason you guys need to turn an active debate into an insulting match? Adrian your initial comment was unnecessary and Wanderer social engineering techniques get pretty tedious on a forum. I'm a bit confused what was particularly wrong with the 'install windows' suggestion since macs now run both os's so excellently along side one another and therefore you really would be getting the best of both worlds? I'm also a bit curious whether the 'itunes rip off' is just 'windows media player' in which case i'm pretty sure media player was there first?

giginger

Well seeing as Apple ripped off iTunes from another company I don't think there's a lot they could say. As Mini said anyway, Media Player was already around by the time iTunes was released. iPhoto was the first photo editing package was it? I don't see how allowing minimal editing of an image in Windows is an iPhoto ripoff.

I suppose I could mention that Apple have ripped off years of PC design by releasing a two button mouse. Then again, they might release one with a scroll wheel in the next couple of decades. Whoa! That'd be really innovative. Imagine a whole extra button just for scrolling and maybe even middle clicking. The ego of Apple is massive. There's no denying.

2 button mouse and they call it THE MIGHTY MOUSE. Nice one Apple, you've referenced a cartoon and also made the single smallest advance in Mouse technology in years. In fact, it's so small it's years behind.

Microsoft copy Apple
Apple copy Microsoft

It works both ways. Neither is better than the other.

Minisweeper

FYI giginger, the mighty mouse has an omnidirectional scroll/click ball. Not that that makes your point a whole lot less valid, though being able to scroll in *any* direction is actually quite useful

Wanderer

 Quote: Minisweeper  Is there a reason you guys need to turn an active debate into an insulting match?
Excellent point Minisweeper it's very childish indeed.
But he started it!

Posted: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 at 6:59AM (AEDT)

y2kbg

hahahaha

Toivo

P.C. I hate you too. /sry, couldnt resist

squirrel

"The point is mate, when you make a change like this you need to embrace it, look for the positives (and there are many) and find new solutions and experiences." My point, mate, is that I rather have embraced it. I do lots of good work on my Mac and I appreciate it, but not to the point where I'll drink the Steve Jobs Kool-Aid that makes the Mac out to be some kind of computing nirvana. Having to search for hours -- literally! hours! -- to find solutions that Windows users have taken for granted for years is really a major drawback. But even more appalling is the knee-jerk reaction of "if you don't like it then leave" from Apple and many Apple fans. Or, my favorite, the not-so-subtle insinuation that anyone who complains just isn't smart enough to use a Mac properly, which is crap. Leopard could be perfect, it could be the Platonic ideal of an operating system plucked directly from the aether, but it would still be garbage if it didn't do what people need. Tiger does about 90% of what I need right now, and could cover the other 10% in about a month if Apple would just suck up their pride a bit and clone some of the simple yet incredibly useful apps that have existed on Windows for a long, long time now. Someone who hadn't embraced their Mac wouldn't even be having this conversation. They would have silently returned to the Apple store to get their money back after the first week of unfulfilled expectations. "There is a program called OnyX that allows you to perform a lot of maintenance tasks and alter a lot of hidden settings." Thank you, adrian. Looks good, I'll try it out.

Wanderer

 Quote: squirrel  Having to search for hours -- literally! hours! -- to find solutions that Windows users have taken for granted for years is really a major drawback.
Oh my $%#$#$@ hours, really? Literally %#$^%# hours? What a disaster!

I have certainly never experienced this, however clients who switched have, until, that is, I point out the "Mac" way of achieving the same result (if not better) in their new workflow, then their jaws literally hit the ground with an incredulous thud!

 Quote: squirrel   the not-so-subtle insinuation that anyone who complains just isn't smart enough to use a Mac properly, which is crap..
Not crap, true, and not a matter of not being "smart enough" but not in-the-know and perhaps in a little hurry to find a Windows-ish solution.

You complained, very much uninformed, about "the charming OSX compulsion to spam ".DS_Store" and "Trashes" all over any network share or memory stick that it touches".

See how quickly (the OS X savvy) Adrian solved your non-issue with Onyx?

I rest my...

Posted: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 at 1:17PM (AEDT)

y2kbg

luggage? LOL so you wont be traveling anywhere for a while? HaHa

squirrel

"Oh my $%#$#$@ hours, really? Literally %#$^%# hours? What a disaster!" Wow, just... wow. Is this what Apple means when they say "It just works"? "See how quickly (the OS X savvy) Adrian solved your non-issue with Onyx?" Are you kidding me? The need to download a 10 MB, third-party app to fix bad behavior in OSX seems reasonable to you? Sounds like you've been trained to overlook the shortcomings of OSX the same way Windows users are conditioned to expect that their PC will automatically reboot every so often "just because". "I have certainly never experienced this, however clients who switched have, until, that is, I point out the "Mac" way of achieving the same result (if not better) in their new workflow, then their jaws literally hit the ground with an incredulous thud!" We are still talking about Macs, right? We didn't just start talking about Linux? Because that sounds a lot like the logic used by Linux advocates to excuse the generally craptacular GUIs they use. Of course the interface is easy after you've learned all the things that weren't obvious. But by all means, please, amaze me. What is the "Mac" way of performing such arcane tasks as "opening a .tgz file" or "resizing a picture to 800x600"? This stuff is not rocket surgery. I mean, seriously, if this is where your case rests then you've got to work on your closing arguments. I find you guilty of being an Apple ditto-head and I sentence you to a life without parole of arguing on the Internet and wondering why the newest games don't ever run on your computer.

adrian.

"You complained, very much uninformed, about "the charming OSX compulsion to spam ".DS_Store" and "Trashes" all over any network share or memory stick that it touches".

I think OSX should be able to realise it doesn't "own" a network share and should not force its filesystem conventions upon it by default.

OnyX should be there to enable it, if for some reason, you ever wanted OSX to shit all over your network.

See how quickly (the OS X savvy) Adrian solved your non-issue with Onyx?"

don't bring me into your arguement, I helped someone with an issue, there are usually solutions for all problems in the world(*), but if you don't know them, then they aren't much use to you...

* Apart from devout mac fans it seems.

Wanderer

Sigh, now it the OS's fault the user does not know how to open a a .tgz file or to resize a picture to 800x600.

I give up, the bozone layer is not a joke it's real!

Posted: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 at 3:33PM (AEDT)

Wanderer

(yawn, sigh, persisting)

To unpack a .tgz file using Terminal on Mac OS X:
   gunzip -c <tgz_file> | tar -xvf -
or you could use the free StuffIt Expander, (not that I've ever seen a .tgz file)

To resize a picture to 800x600.
   Photoshop, GraphicConverter or your choice of application (and no the OS won't do it for you, you need to learn the application).

Posted: Tuesday, 30 January 2007 at 3:38PM (AEDT)